5 ms·

Ok... "the industry" thinks that we need a new, completely incompatible, standard for graphics development that is locked down (no mention of open source or fre

by hobblin 11y ago

Ok... "the industry" thinks that we need a new, completely incompatible, standard for graphics development that is locked down (no mention of open source or free software) and that lower level of abstraction will make it more reliable (that is some major PR-bullshit)... This can, as I see it, only lead to giving more power to the big companies and shafting the indie developers and linux gamers... So in general, fuck those people!

easytiger 11y ago
Its the same committe running the OpenGL working group among others such as WebGL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khronos_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khronos_Group
parley 11y ago
I have a feeling that that's the completely wrong way to look at it, although I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. Today, GPU vendors write big, complex, closed-source drivers offering high-level APIs that as a result are buggier and harder for FOSS-developers to keep up with and make FOSS replacements for. With Vulkan, GPU vendors should write smaller/simpler drivers, in theory making it easier/cheaper for them to provide good drivers and probably reducing the amount of work needed to produce a replacement FOSS-driver. The complexity and the high-level APIs is supposed to move out of the driver and into libraries and engines, and many such will be FOSS and probably more portable than the FOSS kernel drivers can be. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though, as I'm not a graphics guy, but I was happy for FOSS when I first read about Vulkan.
flippinburgers 11y ago
The Vulkan SDK will be open source when it is released. http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022018/ http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022018/ This is being spearheaded by Valve so the idea that they want to do anything to harm indie developers or linux gamers is simply incorrect.
- zurn 11y ago
  This is orthogonal to availability of open source Vulkan GPU drivers though.
  - profsnuggles 11y ago
    Well Valve paid someone to write an open source Linux Intel Vulkan driver. - The day The Khronos Group releases the Vulkan specifications is when they plan to open-source their Intel Linux driver. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LunarG-Vulkan-AMA http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LunarG-Vu...
sklogic 11y ago
What are you talking about? It'll be a Khronos standard. Do not confuse it with proprietary things like Mantle and Metal.
douche 11y ago
OpenGL has a lot of accumulated cruft over the years,and as others have pointed out, it's state-machine abstraction really doesn't match up with how modern graphics cards actually work.
Qwertious 11y ago
Vulkan is an open standard, and anyone is free to write their own open-source implementation. This is exactly the same as OpenGL - OpenGL is an open standard, and has an open-source implementation by the name of [Mesa](http://www.mesa3d.org/ http://www.mesa3d.org/). As other people have said, OpenGL is to Vulkan as C# is to C. For large-scale engine developers, it's quite clear which you'd want to use, under-the-hood. Besides, just writing the C# runtime environment in C makes an awful lot of sense.
- justthistime_ 11y ago
  > OpenGL is an open standard, and has an open-source implementation by the name of [Mesa](http://www.mesa3d.org/ http://www.mesa3d.org/). I think that's kind of misleading. Mesa lags years behind any current OpenGL standard.
kcbanner 11y ago
You are completely off base here, do your research.

by hobblin 11y ago

easytiger 11y ago

Its the same committe running the OpenGL working group among others such as WebGL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khronos_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khronos_Group

parley 11y ago

I have a feeling that that's the completely wrong way to look at it, although I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. Today, GPU vendors write big, complex, closed-source drivers offering high-level APIs that as a result are buggier and harder for FOSS-developers to keep up with and make FOSS replacements for. With Vulkan, GPU vendors should write smaller/simpler drivers, in theory making it easier/cheaper for them to provide good drivers and probably reducing the amount of work needed to produce a replacement FOSS-driver. The complexity and the high-level APIs is supposed to move out of the driver and into libraries and engines, and many such will be FOSS and probably more portable than the FOSS kernel drivers can be. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though, as I'm not a graphics guy, but I was happy for FOSS when I first read about Vulkan.

flippinburgers 11y ago

The Vulkan SDK will be open source when it is released. http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022018/ http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022018/ This is being spearheaded by Valve so the idea that they want to do anything to harm indie developers or linux gamers is simply incorrect.

zurn 11y ago
This is orthogonal to availability of open source Vulkan GPU drivers though.
- profsnuggles 11y ago
  Well Valve paid someone to write an open source Linux Intel Vulkan driver. - The day The Khronos Group releases the Vulkan specifications is when they plan to open-source their Intel Linux driver. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LunarG-Vulkan-AMA http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LunarG-Vu...

sklogic 11y ago

What are you talking about? It'll be a Khronos standard. Do not confuse it with proprietary things like Mantle and Metal.

douche 11y ago

OpenGL has a lot of accumulated cruft over the years,and as others have pointed out, it's state-machine abstraction really doesn't match up with how modern graphics cards actually work.

Qwertious 11y ago

Vulkan is an open standard, and anyone is free to write their own open-source implementation. This is exactly the same as OpenGL - OpenGL is an open standard, and has an open-source implementation by the name of [Mesa](http://www.mesa3d.org/ http://www.mesa3d.org/). As other people have said, OpenGL is to Vulkan as C# is to C. For large-scale engine developers, it's quite clear which you'd want to use, under-the-hood. Besides, just writing the C# runtime environment in C makes an awful lot of sense.

justthistime_ 11y ago
> OpenGL is an open standard, and has an open-source implementation by the name of [Mesa](http://www.mesa3d.org/ http://www.mesa3d.org/). I think that's kind of misleading. Mesa lags years behind any current OpenGL standard.

kcbanner 11y ago

You are completely off base here, do your research.