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Was pleasantly surprised to see the veritably (at times) acidic rsc championing a code of conduct. Definitely will be beneficial to the community. I haven't hea

by codemac 11y ago

Was pleasantly surprised to see the veritably (at times) acidic rsc championing a code of conduct. Definitely will be beneficial to the community. I haven't heard about any incident that has lead to a CoC being necessary, which is awesome.

AYBABTME 11y ago
It's interesting that you say that, from my little interaction at Gophercon with him, he was a very nice and genuine person. In the parent article, he also mentions: For example, I have learned that when I am pressed for time I tend to write fewer words, with the end result that my emails seem not just hurried but blunt, impatient, even dismissive. That's not how I feel, but it's how I can come across, and that impression can be enough to make people think twice about using or contributing to Go. I realized I was doing this when some Go contributors sent me private email to let me know. Now, when I am pressed for time, I pay extra attention to what I'm writing, and I often write more than I naturally would, to make sure I'm sending the message I intend. which might relate to your point of view.
- throwaway999666 11y ago
  Perhaps we should question the proliferation of coaxing more and more in smilies and pleasantries, when all that is really needed is a straightforward, factual answer. Smilies and pleasantries are fine, if they come up naturally. But why do people get slighted when someone replies to them with a straightforward – not rude, not crass, not sarcastic, just straightforward – answer? I've caught myself getting slighted at people I know who reply to texts or messages in a direct way. Now that everyone uses smilies for personal communication, the direct to-the-point style feels cold and dismissive. But then I realize that they might be perfectly kind and pleasant people in reality. They just have a different text/message style.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 11y ago
  My feelings are happier when you get to the point quickly and don't waste my time.
jbarham 11y ago
I've been reading Russ' emails for 15+ years since he was a Bell Labs wunderkind hacking on Plan 9. On the Plan 9 mailing list he was one of the most prolific and consistently helpful posters, so I think it's unfortunate that he comes across to you as being "acidic" when in real life he's obviously anything but. But as he said in his talk, when pressed for time he tends to make his emails brief, which may give the impression that he is curt, when really it's a weakness of the medium, not the person.
- kylequest 11y ago
  When I read this response about bitwise NOT operator it definitely felt like an impatient and dismissive RTFM response. A patient and welcoming answer could've been much shorter: "hey, we use ^ instead of ~ for that". https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golang-nuts/A9mCgLwyqxY https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golang-nuts/A9mCgLwy...
  - codemac 11y ago
    There are piles of examples of Russ being curt, I'm quite surprised by the response my comment is receiving. I guess I shouldn't have presumed about Russ' reputation - but he definitely has a very negative reputation with me.
    - coldtea 11y ago
      Reading golang-nuts, he always came off as curt and "wise-ass" (of course, given his knowledge and experience, perhaps often justyfingly so, but still). And not in the over-the-top, theatrical way Linus does it which is mostly style, you feel there's real sneer.
      - throwaway999666 11y ago
        > of course, given his knowledge and experience, perhaps often justyfingly so, but still. Always with the half-excuses for people with technical ability/track record. "Well he comes off as kind of rude, buut he kind of knows what he's doing so the arrogance is maybe warranted". Just goes to show that technical ability and dealing with people even in a technical setting are two very different things. I guess that is the reward for a technical track record? Being half-excused for lording it over other people? Disclaimer: I know nothing about Cox' online personality. I'm just addressing how people react to rude (or whatever the intent is) technical people.
hollerith 11y ago
I am surprised to see Russ Cox called "veritably (at times) acidic". Although I suppose it is possible it has changed, his behavior over the 1990s and 2000s on the mailing list for Plan 9 was consistently polite and kindly. He was much more ready than most to help with a bug fix or with information. The reason I continued to read that mailing list for all those years is how much I was learning from his posts (and to a lesser extent those of a few other participants). The same readiness to help and politeness was on display when as a complete stranger I wrote to him a few years ago.

by codemac 11y ago

AYBABTME 11y ago

It's interesting that you say that, from my little interaction at Gophercon with him, he was a very nice and genuine person. In the parent article, he also mentions: For example, I have learned that when I am pressed for time I tend to write fewer words, with the end result that my emails seem not just hurried but blunt, impatient, even dismissive. That's not how I feel, but it's how I can come across, and that impression can be enough to make people think twice about using or contributing to Go. I realized I was doing this when some Go contributors sent me private email to let me know. Now, when I am pressed for time, I pay extra attention to what I'm writing, and I often write more than I naturally would, to make sure I'm sending the message I intend. which might relate to your point of view.

throwaway999666 11y ago
Perhaps we should question the proliferation of coaxing more and more in smilies and pleasantries, when all that is really needed is a straightforward, factual answer. Smilies and pleasantries are fine, if they come up naturally. But why do people get slighted when someone replies to them with a straightforward – not rude, not crass, not sarcastic, just straightforward – answer? I've caught myself getting slighted at people I know who reply to texts or messages in a direct way. Now that everyone uses smilies for personal communication, the direct to-the-point style feels cold and dismissive. But then I realize that they might be perfectly kind and pleasant people in reality. They just have a different text/message style.
0xdeadbeefbabe 11y ago
My feelings are happier when you get to the point quickly and don't waste my time.

jbarham 11y ago

I've been reading Russ' emails for 15+ years since he was a Bell Labs wunderkind hacking on Plan 9. On the Plan 9 mailing list he was one of the most prolific and consistently helpful posters, so I think it's unfortunate that he comes across to you as being "acidic" when in real life he's obviously anything but. But as he said in his talk, when pressed for time he tends to make his emails brief, which may give the impression that he is curt, when really it's a weakness of the medium, not the person.

kylequest 11y ago
When I read this response about bitwise NOT operator it definitely felt like an impatient and dismissive RTFM response. A patient and welcoming answer could've been much shorter: "hey, we use ^ instead of ~ for that". https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golang-nuts/A9mCgLwyqxY https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golang-nuts/A9mCgLwy...
- codemac 11y ago
  There are piles of examples of Russ being curt, I'm quite surprised by the response my comment is receiving. I guess I shouldn't have presumed about Russ' reputation - but he definitely has a very negative reputation with me.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Reading golang-nuts, he always came off as curt and "wise-ass" (of course, given his knowledge and experience, perhaps often justyfingly so, but still). And not in the over-the-top, theatrical way Linus does it which is mostly style, you feel there's real sneer.
    - throwaway999666 11y ago
      > of course, given his knowledge and experience, perhaps often justyfingly so, but still. Always with the half-excuses for people with technical ability/track record. "Well he comes off as kind of rude, buut he kind of knows what he's doing so the arrogance is maybe warranted". Just goes to show that technical ability and dealing with people even in a technical setting are two very different things. I guess that is the reward for a technical track record? Being half-excused for lording it over other people? Disclaimer: I know nothing about Cox' online personality. I'm just addressing how people react to rude (or whatever the intent is) technical people.

hollerith 11y ago

I am surprised to see Russ Cox called "veritably (at times) acidic". Although I suppose it is possible it has changed, his behavior over the 1990s and 2000s on the mailing list for Plan 9 was consistently polite and kindly. He was much more ready than most to help with a bug fix or with information. The reason I continued to read that mailing list for all those years is how much I was learning from his posts (and to a lesser extent those of a few other participants). The same readiness to help and politeness was on display when as a complete stranger I wrote to him a few years ago.