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It is true that I over-simplified and used careers that aren't very similar, but that was kind of the point. > Of course they won't care because it makes no di

by jaawn 11y ago

It is true that I over-simplified and used careers that aren't very similar, but that was kind of the point. > Of course they won't care because it makes no difference to them. Exactly. My point is that it also shouldn't matter to programmers, in the same fashion. Why does it matter if you use Emacs or Vim or Notepad? Why does it matter if you use Ubuntu or Windows or OSX? If you can produce high-quality work that is maintainable in roughly the same amount of time as someone else, the tool you use doesn't matter. People should have preferences and they should be able to use the tools that are comfortable for them. However, any self-important feelings based on these preferences are silly and don't really make sense. That was my intended point originally.

sanderjd 11y ago
Well, for better or worse, it matters because programming is (almost) never a solo activity, thus tools are frequently dictated by a larger community, so advocating for the tools you feel more comfortable and productive in might increase the likelihood that you'll get to use them. From there it is a fine line to walk between advocating merits and seeming self-important or arrogant.
- jaawn 11y ago
  This is very true. In order to be collaborative, we must use the same tools, or compatible tools. You could of course have a reasonable, constructive debate about the merits of different source code management systems, for example. However, it would be strange to feel personally attacked if someone doesn't like your preference, or to think you're better than someone else because of their preference. It would be about compromising.
gknoy 11y ago
> Why does it matter if you use Emacs or Vim or Notepad? > Why does it matter if you use Ubuntu or Windows or OSX? > If you can produce high-quality work ... the tool you use doesn't matter. In all of these things, there is a shallow similarity, and a deeper difference that is only visible to a user with expertise. Tools have Quality, and experts care about it. Professionals care deeply about their tools. Writers care about pen qualities, musicians care about software and instruments, hunters care about their weapon. Programmers care deeply about our editors, languages, source control, and computer platform. Photographers care about their equipment. Comparing Vim/Emacs with Notepad is like comparing whether to use a computer versus writing by hand -- nearly no professional writer will choose to use a pen and paper when they have the power of a word processor at hand, and similarly nearly no programmer will choose Notepad over a professional code editing tool. You'll quickly find that many people who care about writing by hand care deeply about not just pens, but the ink they use within them -- the depth of nerdiness in the fountain pen forums is amazing. Consider looking at "fountain pen reviews", for example. People usually don't care about post-it brands or pen brands (or band-aids or toothpaste) because, in most cases, they are __functionally equivalent__, so you can decide on price or convenience. If one is not a discerning user, in theory one might buy a set of kitchen knives, a coffee maker, a car, a suit, or a computer based solely on price. Most of us have been burned enough by low-quality tools to care enough to discern Good from Bad. As programmers, we have the expertise to compare Python vs Ruby, or Emacs vs Vim, or Linux/OSX/Windows. We might not have the same depth of caring in other subjects (cars, cooking knives, pens, phones), and therefore do not engage in the same degree of holy-war that we tend towards when evangelizing our favorite tools.
- jaawn 11y ago
  Debating the merits or pros/cons of any given tool is different from binding any self-evaluations to your choices, or evaluating others based on theirs. Writing someone off as "lesser" because they prefer Windows over Linux is unreasonable. There are plenty of valid reasons to prefer Windows based what you use it for. Disagreeing with those reasons does not mean the same thing as thinking the person is "lesser" for it.

by jaawn 11y ago

sanderjd 11y ago

Well, for better or worse, it matters because programming is (almost) never a solo activity, thus tools are frequently dictated by a larger community, so advocating for the tools you feel more comfortable and productive in might increase the likelihood that you'll get to use them. From there it is a fine line to walk between advocating merits and seeming self-important or arrogant.

jaawn 11y ago
This is very true. In order to be collaborative, we must use the same tools, or compatible tools. You could of course have a reasonable, constructive debate about the merits of different source code management systems, for example. However, it would be strange to feel personally attacked if someone doesn't like your preference, or to think you're better than someone else because of their preference. It would be about compromising.

gknoy 11y ago

> Why does it matter if you use Emacs or Vim or Notepad? > Why does it matter if you use Ubuntu or Windows or OSX? > If you can produce high-quality work ... the tool you use doesn't matter. In all of these things, there is a shallow similarity, and a deeper difference that is only visible to a user with expertise. Tools have Quality, and experts care about it. Professionals care deeply about their tools. Writers care about pen qualities, musicians care about software and instruments, hunters care about their weapon. Programmers care deeply about our editors, languages, source control, and computer platform. Photographers care about their equipment. Comparing Vim/Emacs with Notepad is like comparing whether to use a computer versus writing by hand -- nearly no professional writer will choose to use a pen and paper when they have the power of a word processor at hand, and similarly nearly no programmer will choose Notepad over a professional code editing tool. You'll quickly find that many people who care about writing by hand care deeply about not just pens, but the ink they use within them -- the depth of nerdiness in the fountain pen forums is amazing. Consider looking at "fountain pen reviews", for example. People usually don't care about post-it brands or pen brands (or band-aids or toothpaste) because, in most cases, they are __functionally equivalent__, so you can decide on price or convenience. If one is not a discerning user, in theory one might buy a set of kitchen knives, a coffee maker, a car, a suit, or a computer based solely on price. Most of us have been burned enough by low-quality tools to care enough to discern Good from Bad. As programmers, we have the expertise to compare Python vs Ruby, or Emacs vs Vim, or Linux/OSX/Windows. We might not have the same depth of caring in other subjects (cars, cooking knives, pens, phones), and therefore do not engage in the same degree of holy-war that we tend towards when evangelizing our favorite tools.

jaawn 11y ago
Debating the merits or pros/cons of any given tool is different from binding any self-evaluations to your choices, or evaluating others based on theirs. Writing someone off as "lesser" because they prefer Windows over Linux is unreasonable. There are plenty of valid reasons to prefer Windows based what you use it for. Disagreeing with those reasons does not mean the same thing as thinking the person is "lesser" for it.