3 ms·

The thing is, some functional programmers are arrogant. I really like the understanding that comes from learning a functional language, but I've never fit in am

The thing is, some functional programmers are arrogant. I really like the understanding that comes from learning a functional language, but I've never fit in among the die hard folks who believe that it's functional or nothing. As a functional moderate, I've been maligned at times and in particular by the functional faithful -- which comes off as arrogance. In an interview once, I was asked what defines functional programming. After I provided an answer I thought was reasonable (function composition, statelessness, immutability), my interviewer politely responded to my obvious ignorance with a few corrections like, "you forgot first class functions!". The tight smirk on his face was as if to say, "Ha! Gotcha, n00b!" I think a lot of functional advocates are out to prove that it's better than imperative and other paradigms, but it ends up coming off like a forced sports rivalry. What the hell does "better" mean, anyway? Pick a good enough tool for the job and ship something.

Tehnix 11y ago
Sure, some are, but I would very much say that the majority aren't! Almost all the FP advocates I know of (although I only follow Haskell) are quite aware of both the mind change and that practicality can matter a great deal, and won't force anything on you. I would say that you interviewer sounded a bit like an asshole then, but I would not conclude that the whole of the community of FP are, from just that.
- cgearhart 11y ago
  > I would not conclude that the whole of the community of FP are [assholes] Agreed, and neither would I. My anecdote was merely to illustrate that there is a stereotype borne out by rare but memorable experiences attached to functional programming die hards that includes arrogance. FWIW, I think it comes in large part from the academic emphasis functional programming has held for many years. The folks who come out of that world have often bought in wholly to FP, and their attitude may as easily be regarded as pedantic rather than arrogant.
turkeysandwich 11y ago
I don't think there's any reason to think that functional programmers are more arrogant now than advocates of new programming paradigms were in the past. You could call them architecture astronauts: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html
- cgearhart 11y ago
  I wouldn't really call functional a "new" paradigm... It's fun learning new tools and tricks, too, so I don't mind advocacy and outreach. But many folks in the cult of functional present it as a panacea -- "If only," they lament, "everyone would use functional languages, we wouldn't have all this terrible software because functional languages eliminate entire classes of bugs!" and other tropes. Even if all the hype is true, that doesn't mean that the functional model of computation is the best (easiest to grok, maintain, or whatever) way to solve every problem. There is room for a variety of ideas and programming models, and I'm glad functional is one of them.

Tehnix 11y ago

Sure, some are, but I would very much say that the majority aren't! Almost all the FP advocates I know of (although I only follow Haskell) are quite aware of both the mind change and that practicality can matter a great deal, and won't force anything on you. I would say that you interviewer sounded a bit like an asshole then, but I would not conclude that the whole of the community of FP are, from just that.

cgearhart 11y ago
> I would not conclude that the whole of the community of FP are [assholes] Agreed, and neither would I. My anecdote was merely to illustrate that there is a stereotype borne out by rare but memorable experiences attached to functional programming die hards that includes arrogance. FWIW, I think it comes in large part from the academic emphasis functional programming has held for many years. The folks who come out of that world have often bought in wholly to FP, and their attitude may as easily be regarded as pedantic rather than arrogant.

turkeysandwich 11y ago

I don't think there's any reason to think that functional programmers are more arrogant now than advocates of new programming paradigms were in the past. You could call them architecture astronauts: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html

cgearhart 11y ago
I wouldn't really call functional a "new" paradigm... It's fun learning new tools and tricks, too, so I don't mind advocacy and outreach. But many folks in the cult of functional present it as a panacea -- "If only," they lament, "everyone would use functional languages, we wouldn't have all this terrible software because functional languages eliminate entire classes of bugs!" and other tropes. Even if all the hype is true, that doesn't mean that the functional model of computation is the best (easiest to grok, maintain, or whatever) way to solve every problem. There is room for a variety of ideas and programming models, and I'm glad functional is one of them.