3 ms·

The German change was a politic change, and was inevitable because they lost the war, and the political ideology which started it all was bankrupt, defeated and

The German change was a politic change, and was inevitable because they lost the war, and the political ideology which started it all was bankrupt, defeated and exterminated. From this politic change, they extracted a debt relief which helped them to recover. Without that, they would have languished economically, just as the Greek are doing now. The Greece change can not come because the main reason that is keeping them in crisis (the debt burden) will not disappear. That is why they are asking for debt relief: they want to bankrupt the old system.

Arnt 11y ago
Quoting http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2015/06/greek-pensions http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2015/06/greek-pe... "Yet there was a crucial hole in the reforms: they largely sheltered older workers, so that they could retire on broadly the same terms as before. As an example, Platon Tinios, a pensions expert at Piraeus University, highlights the reform limiting the list of arduous occupations. This no longer included new hairdressers from 2012 but all those with more than ten years’ experience retained their previous right to retire five years early. The new accrual rates applied to years worked from 2011; previous years worked still benefited from the earlier more generous formula (although the resulting benefits are then subjected to the cuts applied to pensions in payment). According to Professor Tinios, “the vast majority of those planning to retire this decade are grandfathered” (shielded) from the reforms."
- gonvaled 11y ago
  > although the resulting benefits are then subjected to the cuts applied to pensions in payment So, the cuts still apply, partially, even to the people who are retiring early. And anyway: you are a worker, having compromised to work for a meager salary because you know that at least you are going to retire early. You work 30 years and have nothing to show for it, but the promise of an early retirement. That is the deal you have signed, the deal you have been promised: "you will work for free (nearly), in exchange of retiring early". And now, they are supposed to accept a retroactive contract change? I would also not accept it. If you are going to break deals, why not break the debt deal? Restructure the debt, and start from zero. Maybe that means you need to leave the Euro, and maybe that is good for you.
  - Arnt 11y ago
    It's always possible to renege on a loan. The next problem then is that if you want to borrow again later, you have to find a persuasive argument that you won't default again. "We've changed, really we have" and so on. Worked for the Germans, who had changed, and I think it would work for the Greek if they were able to cut pension costs enough, reduce corruption, clean up taxation and generally pull off reforms.

Arnt 11y ago

Quoting http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2015/06/greek-pensions http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2015/06/greek-pe... "Yet there was a crucial hole in the reforms: they largely sheltered older workers, so that they could retire on broadly the same terms as before. As an example, Platon Tinios, a pensions expert at Piraeus University, highlights the reform limiting the list of arduous occupations. This no longer included new hairdressers from 2012 but all those with more than ten years’ experience retained their previous right to retire five years early. The new accrual rates applied to years worked from 2011; previous years worked still benefited from the earlier more generous formula (although the resulting benefits are then subjected to the cuts applied to pensions in payment). According to Professor Tinios, “the vast majority of those planning to retire this decade are grandfathered” (shielded) from the reforms."

gonvaled 11y ago
> although the resulting benefits are then subjected to the cuts applied to pensions in payment So, the cuts still apply, partially, even to the people who are retiring early. And anyway: you are a worker, having compromised to work for a meager salary because you know that at least you are going to retire early. You work 30 years and have nothing to show for it, but the promise of an early retirement. That is the deal you have signed, the deal you have been promised: "you will work for free (nearly), in exchange of retiring early". And now, they are supposed to accept a retroactive contract change? I would also not accept it. If you are going to break deals, why not break the debt deal? Restructure the debt, and start from zero. Maybe that means you need to leave the Euro, and maybe that is good for you.
- Arnt 11y ago
  It's always possible to renege on a loan. The next problem then is that if you want to borrow again later, you have to find a persuasive argument that you won't default again. "We've changed, really we have" and so on. Worked for the Germans, who had changed, and I think it would work for the Greek if they were able to cut pension costs enough, reduce corruption, clean up taxation and generally pull off reforms.