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Germans Forget Postwar ... Most people these days are unable to distinguish between people and their government. They assume that governments act on behalf of

Germans Forget Postwar ... Most people these days are unable to distinguish between people and their government. They assume that governments act on behalf of the people, yet, somehow they always claim they don't feel represented by their government. A sad world. EDIT: "changed government and its people" to "people and their government", added title

Hermel 11y ago
In that case, we should discuss helping the people, and not discuss helping the Greek government. In fact, Europe is already helping hundreds of thousands of Greeks by offering them good jobs in other countries.
- melling 11y ago
  6 in 10 Greeks don't pay taxes. Tax evasion is common. http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/31/greece.taxes/ http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/31/greece.taxes/ http://boingboing.net/2010/05/04/satellite-photos-cat.html http://boingboing.net/2010/05/04/satellite-photos-cat.html Have they fixed the early retirement issue? http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-germany-pensions-2010-4?op=1 http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-germany-pensions-2010-... http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/12/04/75-of-greek-pensioners-enjoy-early-retirement http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/12/04/75-of-greek-pensi...
  - BBlarat 11y ago
    yes, the average greek retires at 62 and the average european retires at 60. http://www.oecd.org/els/emp/ageingandemploymentpolicies-statisticsonaverageeffectiveageofretirement.htm http://www.oecd.org/els/emp/ageingandemploymentpolicies-stat...
    - creshal 11y ago
      What lazy bast… Ach, scheiße.
    - melling 11y ago
      The age issue isn't the only problem. "Proportion of wages as pension; Greece: 80% Germany: 46%" Almost everything you read has Greeks living in a welfare state that they couldn't afford. You just can't kick the can down the road forever: http://www.npr.org/2015/07/07/420913926/despite-large-cuts-to-greeces-pension-system-creditors-want-more http://www.npr.org/2015/07/07/420913926/despite-large-cuts-t...
- saiya-jin 11y ago
  very true, in fact any greek person worth a dime on job market can easily pack & go. i am very surprised that very few actually leave their homeland, despite constant complaints how hellish place greece became thanks to budget cuts and reforms. either that's a blatant lie, or they are just lazy. yeah, it's not the best solution overall if all worthy people leave the place, but that's how current world works. and loss for one country is a net gain for another too (maybe germany? :))
  - verinus 11y ago
    from what I have read and seen lots of young Greeks are leaving the country. German language education has soared during the beginning of the crisis- not sure if the anti-german press coverage of the Greek press has changed that...
- asgard1024 11y ago
  > Europe is already helping hundreds of thousands of Greeks by offering them good jobs in other countries Yeah, brilliant idea, let's move 10 million people out of the Greece, because moving investments into the Greece is so difficult these days..
cuillevel3 11y ago
And why try to distinguish in every discussion? A government acting on behalf of the people doesn't necessarily act for the people. You can't act for all the people. The people aren't a homogeneous group either. And the government is split into several branches (sub-systems) too. This isn't a sad world. It's just not very romantic.
- dmichulke 11y ago
  If a government does something, then that doesn't mean that the people do something. "Germans", "Jews" and "Muslims" are always a generalization (as opposed to "Most/Some/A Few Germans/Jews/Muslims") However, in this case the actor is clearly the government and it is a much more specific "subgroup" than "Germans". (Otherwise, we could as well write "Humans", "Mammals" or "Living beings" forget postwar ...).
deciplex 11y ago
The Nazis did not act on behalf of the German people in the sense that the German people mostly did not want to exterminate the Jewish race along with several other demographic categories. However, limiting the scope to antisemitism itself, the Nazis were definitely representative of the German people of the time, and indeed most of Europe.

Hermel 11y ago

In that case, we should discuss helping the people, and not discuss helping the Greek government. In fact, Europe is already helping hundreds of thousands of Greeks by offering them good jobs in other countries.

melling 11y ago
6 in 10 Greeks don't pay taxes. Tax evasion is common. http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/31/greece.taxes/ http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/31/greece.taxes/ http://boingboing.net/2010/05/04/satellite-photos-cat.html http://boingboing.net/2010/05/04/satellite-photos-cat.html Have they fixed the early retirement issue? http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-germany-pensions-2010-4?op=1 http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-germany-pensions-2010-... http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/12/04/75-of-greek-pensioners-enjoy-early-retirement http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/12/04/75-of-greek-pensi...
- BBlarat 11y ago
  yes, the average greek retires at 62 and the average european retires at 60. http://www.oecd.org/els/emp/ageingandemploymentpolicies-statisticsonaverageeffectiveageofretirement.htm http://www.oecd.org/els/emp/ageingandemploymentpolicies-stat...
  - creshal 11y ago
    What lazy bast… Ach, scheiße.
  - melling 11y ago
    The age issue isn't the only problem. "Proportion of wages as pension; Greece: 80% Germany: 46%" Almost everything you read has Greeks living in a welfare state that they couldn't afford. You just can't kick the can down the road forever: http://www.npr.org/2015/07/07/420913926/despite-large-cuts-to-greeces-pension-system-creditors-want-more http://www.npr.org/2015/07/07/420913926/despite-large-cuts-t...
saiya-jin 11y ago
very true, in fact any greek person worth a dime on job market can easily pack & go. i am very surprised that very few actually leave their homeland, despite constant complaints how hellish place greece became thanks to budget cuts and reforms. either that's a blatant lie, or they are just lazy. yeah, it's not the best solution overall if all worthy people leave the place, but that's how current world works. and loss for one country is a net gain for another too (maybe germany? :))
- verinus 11y ago
  from what I have read and seen lots of young Greeks are leaving the country. German language education has soared during the beginning of the crisis- not sure if the anti-german press coverage of the Greek press has changed that...
asgard1024 11y ago
> Europe is already helping hundreds of thousands of Greeks by offering them good jobs in other countries Yeah, brilliant idea, let's move 10 million people out of the Greece, because moving investments into the Greece is so difficult these days..

cuillevel3 11y ago

And why try to distinguish in every discussion? A government acting on behalf of the people doesn't necessarily act for the people. You can't act for all the people. The people aren't a homogeneous group either. And the government is split into several branches (sub-systems) too. This isn't a sad world. It's just not very romantic.

dmichulke 11y ago
If a government does something, then that doesn't mean that the people do something. "Germans", "Jews" and "Muslims" are always a generalization (as opposed to "Most/Some/A Few Germans/Jews/Muslims") However, in this case the actor is clearly the government and it is a much more specific "subgroup" than "Germans". (Otherwise, we could as well write "Humans", "Mammals" or "Living beings" forget postwar ...).

deciplex 11y ago

The Nazis did not act on behalf of the German people in the sense that the German people mostly did not want to exterminate the Jewish race along with several other demographic categories. However, limiting the scope to antisemitism itself, the Nazis were definitely representative of the German people of the time, and indeed most of Europe.