7 ms·

The whole point of sub pixel rendering is to make text look like it's higher resolution. Once you get to a sufficiently high DPI there's no benefit to it.

TheLoneWolfling 11y ago
Yes. However, the question is "are apple displays "sufficiently high DPI"". They are higher DPI than most other displays - but that is not the same thing.
- simonh 11y ago
  The whole point of Retina displays is that the pixels are below the level of the average eye's ability to discern them individually. That's where the Retina monicker comes from. Asking for a citation for a well known issue, that's been widely reported for years, isn't going to win you many friends.
  - TheLoneWolfling 11y ago
    You're forgetting movement. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9849223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9849223
- userbinator 11y ago
  When the (whole) pixels are already small enough to the extent of being almost invisible to the naked eye, there's no point in trying to squeeze more resolution out by using individual subpixels.
  - TheLoneWolfling 11y ago
    You're forgetting movement. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9849223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9849223
- ajross 11y ago
  Apple displays aren't particularly denser than those of other manufacturers. Which stands to reason, as they don't actually make displays. They purchase them from the same market other vendors do.
- prewett 11y ago
  My answer is "yes, they are sufficiently high DPI." a) if it truly is "retina," then your eye can't distinguish pixels smaller than it, so subpixel text is meaningless. b) Laser printers started at 300 DPI, at 1 bit of color and even now have pretty much settled on 600 DPI, still usually 1 bit of color. Retina displays are about 300 DPI with 8 bits of color (in black and white). So, roughly comparable to a laser printer.
  - TheLoneWolfling 11y ago
    You're forgetting movement. Which is not an issue with printers, but is an issue with displays. Such as when scrolling and such. You can detect the difference between moving at 5 inches/sec and, say, 7.5 inches/sec quite easily. With no subpixel rendering, assuming a framerate of 60fps, you can move only at the following speeds: 5 inches per second (1 pixel / frame), 10 inches per second (2 pixels per frame), 15 inches per second (3 pixels per frame)... If you're running at 60 FPS and don't mind judder above 30FPS (hideous, but some people apparently don't mind it. I am not one of those people. On a related note: for some reason PM occasionally tears webpages when scrolling, and it drives me crazy), things are a little better, but not much. 2.5 inches / second (1 pixel / 2 frames), 3.75 inches / second (1 pixel then 2 pixels, alternating), 5 inches / second (1 pixel / frame), 6.25 inches / second (2 pixels then 3 pixels, alternating)... You cannot maintain a scroll speed slower than 5 inches per second (approximately: 300dpi @ 60fps. If you compromise for 30fps, that's 2.5 inches per second instead) without dropping your effective framerate without subpixel rendering. This is an issue all over the place. As such, yes, subpixel rendering is still required even with retina displays.
    - panic 11y ago
      Yes, you need the ability to draw content at fractional pixel offsets to get smooth motion. That's different than the "subpixel rendering" the original post was talking about, though, which is a way to draw sharper shapes (usually text) by addressing the red, green and blue "subpixels" individually: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering

TheLoneWolfling 11y ago

Yes. However, the question is "are apple displays "sufficiently high DPI"". They are higher DPI than most other displays - but that is not the same thing.

simonh 11y ago
The whole point of Retina displays is that the pixels are below the level of the average eye's ability to discern them individually. That's where the Retina monicker comes from. Asking for a citation for a well known issue, that's been widely reported for years, isn't going to win you many friends.
- TheLoneWolfling 11y ago
  You're forgetting movement. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9849223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9849223
userbinator 11y ago
When the (whole) pixels are already small enough to the extent of being almost invisible to the naked eye, there's no point in trying to squeeze more resolution out by using individual subpixels.
- TheLoneWolfling 11y ago
  You're forgetting movement. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9849223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9849223
ajross 11y ago
Apple displays aren't particularly denser than those of other manufacturers. Which stands to reason, as they don't actually make displays. They purchase them from the same market other vendors do.
prewett 11y ago
My answer is "yes, they are sufficiently high DPI." a) if it truly is "retina," then your eye can't distinguish pixels smaller than it, so subpixel text is meaningless. b) Laser printers started at 300 DPI, at 1 bit of color and even now have pretty much settled on 600 DPI, still usually 1 bit of color. Retina displays are about 300 DPI with 8 bits of color (in black and white). So, roughly comparable to a laser printer.
- TheLoneWolfling 11y ago
  You're forgetting movement. Which is not an issue with printers, but is an issue with displays. Such as when scrolling and such. You can detect the difference between moving at 5 inches/sec and, say, 7.5 inches/sec quite easily. With no subpixel rendering, assuming a framerate of 60fps, you can move only at the following speeds: 5 inches per second (1 pixel / frame), 10 inches per second (2 pixels per frame), 15 inches per second (3 pixels per frame)... If you're running at 60 FPS and don't mind judder above 30FPS (hideous, but some people apparently don't mind it. I am not one of those people. On a related note: for some reason PM occasionally tears webpages when scrolling, and it drives me crazy), things are a little better, but not much. 2.5 inches / second (1 pixel / 2 frames), 3.75 inches / second (1 pixel then 2 pixels, alternating), 5 inches / second (1 pixel / frame), 6.25 inches / second (2 pixels then 3 pixels, alternating)... You cannot maintain a scroll speed slower than 5 inches per second (approximately: 300dpi @ 60fps. If you compromise for 30fps, that's 2.5 inches per second instead) without dropping your effective framerate without subpixel rendering. This is an issue all over the place. As such, yes, subpixel rendering is still required even with retina displays.
  - panic 11y ago
    Yes, you need the ability to draw content at fractional pixel offsets to get smooth motion. That's different than the "subpixel rendering" the original post was talking about, though, which is a way to draw sharper shapes (usually text) by addressing the red, green and blue "subpixels" individually: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering