6 ms·

This is horribly disconcerting. In general the implications are that survivors of severe trauma pass on hormonal alterations to their children, I wonder how ma

by iaw 11y ago

This is horribly disconcerting. In general the implications are that survivors of severe trauma pass on hormonal alterations to their children, I wonder how many generations this can be observed for.

zenogais 11y ago
It's both good and bad. It's more proof that at least some life experiences can produce heritable traits - typically called Lamarckism, and long considered a discredited contender as an evolutionary theory. Whether these traits are good or bad depends on the life experiences I suppose.
- elloworld1 11y ago
  epigenetics is the modern science
- pervycreeper 11y ago
  This is not Lamarckism, though.
  - _delirium 11y ago
    It's a bit debated whether modern epigenetics vindicates some elements of Lamarckism or not. Or at least it was a debate in the 2000s; I haven't followed it recently. The consensus is probably no, but the question isn't entirely obvious. Some books by Marion J. Lamb and Eva Jablonka are probably the best-known arguments that results from epigenetics pose a challenge to the gene-centered neo-Darwinian account of evolution, and have stirred debate. One response among many, taking the opposite view, although in a fairly nuanced manner: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.372.7925&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.372...
    - zenogais 11y ago
      Thank you for sharing this, fascinating read and interesting viewpoint.
qiqing 11y ago
I don't know about humans, but in mice, epigenetic obesity has been observed for 6 generations. (Also, not sure about epigenetic stress response, but I suspect it's similar.)
PavlovsCat 11y ago
I'm struggling to find the bit in this[1] set of lectures where something like this was mentioned (I only got to #15 so far); not this study of course, but something about rats being more prone to stress (he was more specific than that) depending on how stressed their mother was (again, that's how I remember it), and that it takes 4-5 generations for that to return to "normal". The logic being that if stress leads to passing on "lower stress tolerance" or however you want to call it, that in turn leads to the offspring being more stressed, which in turn makes their offspring more prone to stress. I know this may be something totally unrelated, like comparing a jpeg to a wav file, I have no clue about this subject really. It's just this "similar thing that this reminded me of" :) [1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D edit, this was the bit I was thinking of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0WZx7lUOrY&t=50m11s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0WZx7lUOrY&t=50m11s

by iaw 11y ago

This is horribly disconcerting. In general the implications are that survivors of severe trauma pass on hormonal alterations to their children, I wonder how many generations this can be observed for.

zenogais 11y ago

It's both good and bad. It's more proof that at least some life experiences can produce heritable traits - typically called Lamarckism, and long considered a discredited contender as an evolutionary theory. Whether these traits are good or bad depends on the life experiences I suppose.

elloworld1 11y ago
epigenetics is the modern science
pervycreeper 11y ago
This is not Lamarckism, though.
- _delirium 11y ago
  It's a bit debated whether modern epigenetics vindicates some elements of Lamarckism or not. Or at least it was a debate in the 2000s; I haven't followed it recently. The consensus is probably no, but the question isn't entirely obvious. Some books by Marion J. Lamb and Eva Jablonka are probably the best-known arguments that results from epigenetics pose a challenge to the gene-centered neo-Darwinian account of evolution, and have stirred debate. One response among many, taking the opposite view, although in a fairly nuanced manner: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.372.7925&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.372...
  - zenogais 11y ago
    Thank you for sharing this, fascinating read and interesting viewpoint.

qiqing 11y ago

I don't know about humans, but in mice, epigenetic obesity has been observed for 6 generations. (Also, not sure about epigenetic stress response, but I suspect it's similar.)

PavlovsCat 11y ago

I'm struggling to find the bit in this[1] set of lectures where something like this was mentioned (I only got to #15 so far); not this study of course, but something about rats being more prone to stress (he was more specific than that) depending on how stressed their mother was (again, that's how I remember it), and that it takes 4-5 generations for that to return to "normal". The logic being that if stress leads to passing on "lower stress tolerance" or however you want to call it, that in turn leads to the offspring being more stressed, which in turn makes their offspring more prone to stress. I know this may be something totally unrelated, like comparing a jpeg to a wav file, I have no clue about this subject really. It's just this "similar thing that this reminded me of" :) [1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D edit, this was the bit I was thinking of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0WZx7lUOrY&t=50m11s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0WZx7lUOrY&t=50m11s