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I started a CS-degree some 10 years ago. Focused more on the partying then the studying. Got my shit together. Took a COBOL class and my entry salary is way hi

by tolle 11y ago

I started a CS-degree some 10 years ago. Focused more on the partying then the studying. Got my shit together. Took a COBOL class and my entry salary is way higher then full fledged masters in CS is. And the job requires no overtime at all. None of the risks you sign up for with a startup. Great benefits in lower interests on mortgages, great pension plans, lower retirement age and job security. And things I learn today will be just as relevant years from now. So no need to keep up with stuff on my spare time. Well I had some work experience as a developer from a startup doing web stuff.

sliverstorm 11y ago
And things I learn today will be just as relevant years from now. So no need to keep up with stuff on my spare time. Isn't that such a weird feeling when you're in tech? :) I am not a COBOL programmer, but I imagine taking a COBOL gig is like stepping back in time to the days of IBM, mainframes and suits at the office.
the_af 11y ago
I worked with COBOL during the Y2K thing. Forget for a minute about the (very valid) downsides of startups: COBOL development in institutions such as banks is utterly boring. If, like me, you got into computers because you were fascinated by programming, run like hell from COBOL and forget the money argument. Run like hell whenever someone tells you "it's not that bad", like in the article. Nothing good can come from something introduced as not being "that bad". If you're in this mostly for the money, then sure, learn COBOL.
- kbenson 11y ago
  Or, use COBOL to pay the bills while you work on your hobby or startup on the side. Having a steady job that doesn't require overtime is sadly often underrated by our industry, but it provides quite a bit of flexibility of its own. Then again, being stuck in crappy, uninspiring code all day and then getting to use something interesting and exciting in your off time can sometimes make the day job all that much harder to handle...
  - the_af 11y ago
    Yes to your second part. Working with COBOL at a bank was soul-crushing to me. I think the combination of COBOL+bank is deadly: obsolete, boring technology combined with an utterly conservative environment, unwilling to take risks. I fully agree that no overtime is great -- that's why I'm not arguing anything about startups! -- but when you realize how many hours a day you spend in your day job, working with something that sucks cannot be compensated by a hobby. For me, at least. I fully understand someone could find the trade-off acceptable.
  - TylerE 11y ago
    That's a great recipe for burnout. Coding 12+ hours a day isn't healthy.
    - kbenson 11y ago
      I think it depends entirely on how you view your off-time work. I used to be fairly active in developing for the Roku with a friend, and 2-3 times a week he would come over and we would work on our Roku app(s) for 3-5 hours. It felt very much like hanging out with a friend screwing around in the garage to build something, and usually left me feeling more energized than tired. I've also done (and am doing) the solo hacking on startup stuff. Getting motivated for that can be really hard.
  - tolle 11y ago
    Maybe all banks aren't the same. I choose the one that seemed to be the one that would be more fun to work at. Also probably depends on what country you are living in.
tolle 11y ago
I still fiddle around on my spare time with modern tech just for fun. I just don't have to learn every new "tech of the week" to stay relevant. But yeah, suits some better then others. I'd imagine it's the perfect area to work in if you have kids or such. Finance is however a huge field on its own. And a huge part of the work is implementing new regulations. If I end up getting bored, I know multiple other languages quite well. And if I decide to leave the finance sector, having a job as a developer on a bank is a positive thing here.

by tolle 11y ago

sliverstorm 11y ago

And things I learn today will be just as relevant years from now. So no need to keep up with stuff on my spare time. Isn't that such a weird feeling when you're in tech? :) I am not a COBOL programmer, but I imagine taking a COBOL gig is like stepping back in time to the days of IBM, mainframes and suits at the office.

the_af 11y ago

I worked with COBOL during the Y2K thing. Forget for a minute about the (very valid) downsides of startups: COBOL development in institutions such as banks is utterly boring. If, like me, you got into computers because you were fascinated by programming, run like hell from COBOL and forget the money argument. Run like hell whenever someone tells you "it's not that bad", like in the article. Nothing good can come from something introduced as not being "that bad". If you're in this mostly for the money, then sure, learn COBOL.

kbenson 11y ago
Or, use COBOL to pay the bills while you work on your hobby or startup on the side. Having a steady job that doesn't require overtime is sadly often underrated by our industry, but it provides quite a bit of flexibility of its own. Then again, being stuck in crappy, uninspiring code all day and then getting to use something interesting and exciting in your off time can sometimes make the day job all that much harder to handle...
- the_af 11y ago
  Yes to your second part. Working with COBOL at a bank was soul-crushing to me. I think the combination of COBOL+bank is deadly: obsolete, boring technology combined with an utterly conservative environment, unwilling to take risks. I fully agree that no overtime is great -- that's why I'm not arguing anything about startups! -- but when you realize how many hours a day you spend in your day job, working with something that sucks cannot be compensated by a hobby. For me, at least. I fully understand someone could find the trade-off acceptable.
- TylerE 11y ago
  That's a great recipe for burnout. Coding 12+ hours a day isn't healthy.
  - kbenson 11y ago
    I think it depends entirely on how you view your off-time work. I used to be fairly active in developing for the Roku with a friend, and 2-3 times a week he would come over and we would work on our Roku app(s) for 3-5 hours. It felt very much like hanging out with a friend screwing around in the garage to build something, and usually left me feeling more energized than tired. I've also done (and am doing) the solo hacking on startup stuff. Getting motivated for that can be really hard.
- tolle 11y ago
  Maybe all banks aren't the same. I choose the one that seemed to be the one that would be more fun to work at. Also probably depends on what country you are living in.

tolle 11y ago

I still fiddle around on my spare time with modern tech just for fun. I just don't have to learn every new "tech of the week" to stay relevant. But yeah, suits some better then others. I'd imagine it's the perfect area to work in if you have kids or such. Finance is however a huge field on its own. And a huge part of the work is implementing new regulations. If I end up getting bored, I know multiple other languages quite well. And if I decide to leave the finance sector, having a job as a developer on a bank is a positive thing here.