5 ms·

Thing is though, it is okay to have sex—safe and consensual sex, that is.

by toothbrush 11y ago

austenallred 11y ago
Most people in the town I grew up in would disagree with that statement
- webjprgm 11y ago
  And I disagree with that statement too. So do various researchers on families and marriage. (I'm horrible at remembering sources, I'd have to hunt them down if you really want them.) And I'm sure there's differing conclusions among researchers since there always are. But my point is that there are legitimate oppositions to the idea that consensual sex is OK, both religion/moral and scientific.
  - oldmanjay 11y ago
    I won't bother chasing down religious or moral objections, but please do back up your statement that there is scientific opposition to consensual sex.
kedean 11y ago
That's where opinion comes in. You can't just force your opinion on people with deeply held, millenia old beliefs and expect it to suddenly work smoothly. It's not even as 'easy' as gay marriage, because now you're actually interfering with how people raise their children.
- genericuser 11y ago
  Presumably the people actually having sex believe that having sex is alright, so no one is really forcing their views on them. People don't have to hold the same values their parents hold now for them.
  - webjprgm 11y ago
    But the government or a school giving birth control is someone teaching the children something parents don't want taught. So you are trampling on the rights of the parents in that case. If the child were to independently decide having sex was fine then it would be about the child's freedom to choose.
    - genericuser 11y ago
      The parents are free to home school their children if they do not want them to learn the curriculum being taught. If we let every parent determine the curriculum for all students, well we would never even get the curriculum defined. So what is taught has to be chosen based on what is most beneficial for the children (as a whole) to be functioning members of society, and not on parent preference.
      - fineman 11y ago
        Unfortunately "free to home school" their children is really a code-word for keeping their children inhumanely isolated for cult compliance reasons. Thought control.
    - pluma 11y ago
      The rights of the parents end where the rights of the child are concerned. No person in a society lives in isolation and sometimes society has to protect a person from harmful influence by their supposed wardens. It's okay to have consensual sex. If kids aren't properly educated about sex (and the consequences having sex can bring, from biological to social), they can't have consensual sex -- but that doesn't mean they won't have sex at all. So no, sex education does not infringe on religious rights. And making condoms available to teenagers who intend on having sex doesn't either. We're not talking about teachers throwing condoms at their students yelling "Fornicate! All of you! With each other! All the time!". We're talking about making condoms available to teenagers who ask for them and letting them know they don't have to expect any invasions of their privacy as a consequence (because doing so would discourage them from asking, thus encouraging unsafe sex). Again: kids are going to have sex. Uneducated kids are going to have more dangerous sex. Educated kids are going to have safer sex. Nobody has the right to deny the kid's independent decision whether to have sex or not. But this goes both ways: not only can't teachers tell a kid whether to have sex or not, but neither can the parents. It's ridiculous that the people who fight against abortion because it infringes upon the rights of the unborn child are often the same people who then raise moral panic about children having sex and try to deny them the right to sex education (and access to things like condoms for when they decide to have sex). Especially if you consider that access to condoms and education also has a positive effect on when those kids decide to have sex, with whom and in what kind of situations -- i.e. if you properly educate kids about sex, they may even come to the realization that they are not actually ready yet and that it's okay to say "no" to horny peers.
- XorNot 11y ago
  Are these people vampires? In which case it's not millenia old, it's just the thing they somehow decided at some time.
  - vlunkr 11y ago
    I don't think they implied that the people are millenia old, the beliefs are. They are culturally engrained for a huge part of the population.
    - genericuser 11y ago
      They were making a joke about the fact that in order for a group of people to hold a belief that it is not alright to do something necessary for reproduction for 1000 years that either they are hypocritical of that belief or they are 1000 years old.
- fineman 11y ago
  It's their children who are forcing the issue - by having sex. Denying access to proper medical consultations and care is recognized as a human rights violation. You don't have a right to forbid your child's access to the health care, justice, etc.
aidenn0 11y ago
In all states teenagers under 16 cannot legally consent to sex.
- a_c_s 11y ago
  Due to "Romeo & Juliet" clauses, this isn't actually true in many states. For example, in Iowa somebody 14 or 15 can have sex with somebody less than 4 years older than them. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_Ameri...

Thing is though, it is okay to have sex—safe and consensual sex, that is.

austenallred 11y ago

Most people in the town I grew up in would disagree with that statement

webjprgm 11y ago
And I disagree with that statement too. So do various researchers on families and marriage. (I'm horrible at remembering sources, I'd have to hunt them down if you really want them.) And I'm sure there's differing conclusions among researchers since there always are. But my point is that there are legitimate oppositions to the idea that consensual sex is OK, both religion/moral and scientific.
- oldmanjay 11y ago
  I won't bother chasing down religious or moral objections, but please do back up your statement that there is scientific opposition to consensual sex.

kedean 11y ago

That's where opinion comes in. You can't just force your opinion on people with deeply held, millenia old beliefs and expect it to suddenly work smoothly. It's not even as 'easy' as gay marriage, because now you're actually interfering with how people raise their children.

genericuser 11y ago
Presumably the people actually having sex believe that having sex is alright, so no one is really forcing their views on them. People don't have to hold the same values their parents hold now for them.
- webjprgm 11y ago
  But the government or a school giving birth control is someone teaching the children something parents don't want taught. So you are trampling on the rights of the parents in that case. If the child were to independently decide having sex was fine then it would be about the child's freedom to choose.
  - genericuser 11y ago
    The parents are free to home school their children if they do not want them to learn the curriculum being taught. If we let every parent determine the curriculum for all students, well we would never even get the curriculum defined. So what is taught has to be chosen based on what is most beneficial for the children (as a whole) to be functioning members of society, and not on parent preference.
    - fineman 11y ago
      Unfortunately "free to home school" their children is really a code-word for keeping their children inhumanely isolated for cult compliance reasons. Thought control.
  - pluma 11y ago
    The rights of the parents end where the rights of the child are concerned. No person in a society lives in isolation and sometimes society has to protect a person from harmful influence by their supposed wardens. It's okay to have consensual sex. If kids aren't properly educated about sex (and the consequences having sex can bring, from biological to social), they can't have consensual sex -- but that doesn't mean they won't have sex at all. So no, sex education does not infringe on religious rights. And making condoms available to teenagers who intend on having sex doesn't either. We're not talking about teachers throwing condoms at their students yelling "Fornicate! All of you! With each other! All the time!". We're talking about making condoms available to teenagers who ask for them and letting them know they don't have to expect any invasions of their privacy as a consequence (because doing so would discourage them from asking, thus encouraging unsafe sex). Again: kids are going to have sex. Uneducated kids are going to have more dangerous sex. Educated kids are going to have safer sex. Nobody has the right to deny the kid's independent decision whether to have sex or not. But this goes both ways: not only can't teachers tell a kid whether to have sex or not, but neither can the parents. It's ridiculous that the people who fight against abortion because it infringes upon the rights of the unborn child are often the same people who then raise moral panic about children having sex and try to deny them the right to sex education (and access to things like condoms for when they decide to have sex). Especially if you consider that access to condoms and education also has a positive effect on when those kids decide to have sex, with whom and in what kind of situations -- i.e. if you properly educate kids about sex, they may even come to the realization that they are not actually ready yet and that it's okay to say "no" to horny peers.
XorNot 11y ago
Are these people vampires? In which case it's not millenia old, it's just the thing they somehow decided at some time.
- vlunkr 11y ago
  I don't think they implied that the people are millenia old, the beliefs are. They are culturally engrained for a huge part of the population.
  - genericuser 11y ago
    They were making a joke about the fact that in order for a group of people to hold a belief that it is not alright to do something necessary for reproduction for 1000 years that either they are hypocritical of that belief or they are 1000 years old.
fineman 11y ago
It's their children who are forcing the issue - by having sex. Denying access to proper medical consultations and care is recognized as a human rights violation. You don't have a right to forbid your child's access to the health care, justice, etc.

aidenn0 11y ago

In all states teenagers under 16 cannot legally consent to sex.

a_c_s 11y ago
Due to "Romeo & Juliet" clauses, this isn't actually true in many states. For example, in Iowa somebody 14 or 15 can have sex with somebody less than 4 years older than them. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_Ameri...