4 ms·

I have friends who have class 3 licences and they say that the strictures in place on automatic weapons are why you don't see then used in crimes very often. Th

I have friends who have class 3 licences and they say that the strictures in place on automatic weapons are why you don't see then used in crimes very often. They are heavily regulated and tracked. As to your point, I don't fault the antigun crowd for using any tactics that work. The progun crowd is certainly guilty of he same thing.

bmelton 11y ago
Post 1986 at least, the ATF not only (heavily) regulates the sale and manufacture of any firearm capable of automatic fire, but they also approve all manufacturing plans to ensure that firearms on the market today are not easily convertible to full automatic. If you get your hands on an old enough SKS, for example, a full auto conversion is dead simple (though obviously illegal without the $200 tax stamp), but for that very reason, those types of arms tend to get snatched up by the legitimate collectors and spirited away into collection vaults while their value climbs. I'd guess it as unlikely that there are fully automatic firearms in use in crime of any significant amount, but that's only a guess, and not really based on anything other than my gut. As far as political strategies go, I agree, in theory. As with all deeply held sentiments, in practice, it's harder to live and let live to those in opposition than just trying really hard... a fault I share with many.
- sudioStudio64 11y ago
  Gosh, there was a time in Texas when you could get ex soviet weapons like the SKS for 90$. Granted that was thirty years ago... You are very evenhanded about this subject. I would like to thank you for it.
  - bmelton 11y ago
    Funny, because re-reading my own posts feels unabashedly biased. I tend to freely acknowledge my biases, but I've learned long ago that there's no "right" political answer. I can tell you that my opinion is very well educated, and predicated on (literally) years of research that begins with Madison's original 19 amendments, but as it's a matter of opinion, I can't prove that my opinion is more right than the other guy's, and I try to keep that in mind as much as I'm able. Danke, for appreciating the effort I'm making at least.
GVIrish 11y ago
"I don't fault the antigun crowd for using any tactics that work. The progun crowd is certainly guilty of he same thing." I absolutely fault any movement that refuses to use correct terminology in order to scare people and misrepresent reality. Because ultimately it makes it far more difficult to have a logical discussion about the issue at hand, and it often results in the focus being put in the wrong place. Rather than focusing on scary 'semi-automatic' weapons maybe if the focus were more on what leads to shootings we could develop better social programs and policing strategies. Maybe the focus would shift towards ending the drug war and reducing criminal recidivism. Instead many people focus on 'assault' weapons and there's never any progress because pro-gun people rightly point out that focusing on assault weapons is misguided.
- sudioStudio64 11y ago
  Do you fault the progun people who over emphasize the successful prevention of home invasion by a gun owner even though its a statistical anomaly compared to a wife being killed by her husband? Or any close associate or family, for that matter. So rather than remove some of the ease with which people obtain firearms, why don't we build a European style welfare state and decriminalize drugs? I'm all for it. How likely is that? Progun forces describe their opponents as actual traitors that are actively trying to destroy the basics of what makes us a free people... for regulating a dangerous consumer product. When you start policing their tactics I will take you seriously, until then I support anything that defeats them.
  - GVIrish 11y ago
    Faulting one sort of nonsensical campaign doesn't mean I support the opposing nonsensical campaign. There are pro-gun that spout silly things like, "We need to arm every teacher!" and there are anti-gun people that say things like, "We should go door to door and confiscate every gun by force!" "When you start policing their tactics I will take you seriously, until then I support anything that defeats them." How am I supposed to 'police' anyone's tactics? People have a right to free speech and that means spouting nonsense to further their goals. My point is that spouting nonsense rarely results in meaningful progress.

bmelton 11y ago

Post 1986 at least, the ATF not only (heavily) regulates the sale and manufacture of any firearm capable of automatic fire, but they also approve all manufacturing plans to ensure that firearms on the market today are not easily convertible to full automatic. If you get your hands on an old enough SKS, for example, a full auto conversion is dead simple (though obviously illegal without the $200 tax stamp), but for that very reason, those types of arms tend to get snatched up by the legitimate collectors and spirited away into collection vaults while their value climbs. I'd guess it as unlikely that there are fully automatic firearms in use in crime of any significant amount, but that's only a guess, and not really based on anything other than my gut. As far as political strategies go, I agree, in theory. As with all deeply held sentiments, in practice, it's harder to live and let live to those in opposition than just trying really hard... a fault I share with many.

sudioStudio64 11y ago
Gosh, there was a time in Texas when you could get ex soviet weapons like the SKS for 90$. Granted that was thirty years ago... You are very evenhanded about this subject. I would like to thank you for it.
- bmelton 11y ago
  Funny, because re-reading my own posts feels unabashedly biased. I tend to freely acknowledge my biases, but I've learned long ago that there's no "right" political answer. I can tell you that my opinion is very well educated, and predicated on (literally) years of research that begins with Madison's original 19 amendments, but as it's a matter of opinion, I can't prove that my opinion is more right than the other guy's, and I try to keep that in mind as much as I'm able. Danke, for appreciating the effort I'm making at least.

GVIrish 11y ago

"I don't fault the antigun crowd for using any tactics that work. The progun crowd is certainly guilty of he same thing." I absolutely fault any movement that refuses to use correct terminology in order to scare people and misrepresent reality. Because ultimately it makes it far more difficult to have a logical discussion about the issue at hand, and it often results in the focus being put in the wrong place. Rather than focusing on scary 'semi-automatic' weapons maybe if the focus were more on what leads to shootings we could develop better social programs and policing strategies. Maybe the focus would shift towards ending the drug war and reducing criminal recidivism. Instead many people focus on 'assault' weapons and there's never any progress because pro-gun people rightly point out that focusing on assault weapons is misguided.

sudioStudio64 11y ago
Do you fault the progun people who over emphasize the successful prevention of home invasion by a gun owner even though its a statistical anomaly compared to a wife being killed by her husband? Or any close associate or family, for that matter. So rather than remove some of the ease with which people obtain firearms, why don't we build a European style welfare state and decriminalize drugs? I'm all for it. How likely is that? Progun forces describe their opponents as actual traitors that are actively trying to destroy the basics of what makes us a free people... for regulating a dangerous consumer product. When you start policing their tactics I will take you seriously, until then I support anything that defeats them.
- GVIrish 11y ago
  Faulting one sort of nonsensical campaign doesn't mean I support the opposing nonsensical campaign. There are pro-gun that spout silly things like, "We need to arm every teacher!" and there are anti-gun people that say things like, "We should go door to door and confiscate every gun by force!" "When you start policing their tactics I will take you seriously, until then I support anything that defeats them." How am I supposed to 'police' anyone's tactics? People have a right to free speech and that means spouting nonsense to further their goals. My point is that spouting nonsense rarely results in meaningful progress.