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> ...Hacking Team's customers include South Korea, Kazakhstan, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Lebanon, and Mongolia. Yet, the company maintains that it does not do busines

by bjterry 11y ago

> ...Hacking Team's customers include South Korea, Kazakhstan, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Lebanon, and Mongolia. Yet, the company maintains that it does not do business with oppressive governments. I was curious if those were all oppressive governments, especially since South Korea was included. According to a couple indices on Wikipedia [1] South Korea is pretty free (only the press freedom index is lower than America's), and Mongolia's not so bad (political freedom, but weakness in press and economic freedom). Pretty hard to lump South Korea in with Saudi Arabia or Kazakhstan. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

delbel 11y ago
I had to read that twice and figured I missed last week's Two Minutes of Hate.
- agopaul 11y ago
  Orwell's 1984?
Zigurd 11y ago
South Korea is fairly recently free-ish. Up until 1987 South Korea had a heavily US-influenced authoritarian government with a token legal opposition. The US still has a very strong influence in South Korea. There are also recent incidents that betray a lack of confidence in democracy: http://www.wsj.com/articles/south-korea-court-dissolves-left-wing-political-party-1418960046 http://www.wsj.com/articles/south-korea-court-dissolves-left... It's a perfectly nice place to visit. People there apparently feel free to talk about everything: The war, the Park era, etc. Unions can be quite militant. But they are not as free as Americans.
- the_ancient 11y ago
  Yes but 'Merica is freedom... I know because we just had 72 hours of colorful explosions declaring the freedom....
  - Zigurd 11y ago
    It's all shades of gray. None of them on a trend toward lighter, it seems.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- curiousjorge 11y ago
  Allegedly a South Korean assemblyman created a sleeper cell that would become 'activated' when North Korea attacks South Korea based on a testimony by an unknown member of the sleeper cell who have never appeared in public or known to even exist. They dissolved the opposition group based on a report by the NIS (intelligence agency of Korea with a long tradition of torturing and suppressing dissidents). The same agency also tied cement around former president Kim Dae Jung (who happens to be from the west province of Korea, who have long been oppressed and persecuted for centuries) after kidnapping him from a Japanese hotel during 70s, but just as they were about to throw him over the boat, guess who, American soldiers stopped them. You pick up a Korean newspaper, you are almost certainly reading a mouthpiece of the government. There are even more frightening stories during this time. Playing national anthem 4 oclock every fucking day, forcing people to stop what they are doing, and sing, many of which were propaganda songs composed by the president with the help of his daughter, the current president of Korea. The most scary one is where people just 'disappear' only to reappear in mental hospitals because they got a bit drunk and talked shit about the government during the 70s or 80s. Plenty of young men conscripted into Korean military would die because what the concept of human rights has long been an alien ideology, basically a curfew and martial law during this period where you couldn't do jack shit after 10pm or you'd get arrested or get a good beating. Let's not also get started with women's rights, but perhaps the most frustrating is the social fabric of Korea is hierachial and oppressive. Kindergarteners going to overly priced private tutors after school ends and coming home at midnight because they are told the same lie that studying will get you places, teachers beating kids with corporal punishment for low scores on exams, and the constant war drumming of the 'suffering' or 'han' of Korean history and teaching to hate neighboring countries, especially Japan. It's no wonder that millenial Koreans are desperate to leave the country, even if it means being a plumber in Germany with an advanced degrees. By no means has South Korea ever been a democracy, the same traditions continue but hidden beneath disinformation and surveillance of opponents.
  - Shizka 11y ago
    This sounds quite different from all the things I have heard about South Korea and the general impression I have of the society and the people. Do you have some sources to back these claims up?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- veddox 11y ago
  > But they are not as free as Americans. Oh, give over! As if the US of A were the ultimate land of freedom. With the NSA, Guantanamo, race-based police violence... [Disclaimer: I have nothing against the USA (well, almost nothing). But I can't stand people talking about it as if it was the only true democracy/free country/heaven on earth.]
  - celticninja 11y ago
    But they have guns. For some reason there is the belief that if you have guns then you are more free than someone without guns. Perhaps because the original intention was that if you have an armed population then they cannot be ruled over by means of force or they would at least be able to rise up against their opressors in a meaningful fashion. Guns in America are a bit of an opiate for the masses, people have guns and feel free therefore they dont need to rise up against their government no matter what other constitutional freedoms they shit on as long as they dont attempt to take their guns they will pretty much let them get away with anything.
    - caskance 11y ago
      Freedom is a feeling. If you feel free, then you are free.
      - griffinmb 11y ago
        That's an interesting way of looking at it, though I disagree. Consider the society depicted in Brave New World (or, more recently, District 1 in the Hunger Games). It may be fiction, but I think it showcases a true-to-life phenomenon where people feel free only because of hyper-stimulation. Because they have so much, they don't think about everything they lack.
        caskance 11y ago
        One could say the same about any so-called free people. Do you feel free? Even though you don't have eternal life? Even though you can't afford to fly to work every day in a jetpack? Even though you can't have sex with a woman other than your wife? If you have the things that matter to you, and can make the choices that are meaningful to you, then you are free.
reirob 11y ago
Update 5: Hacking Team currently has, based on internal documents leaked by the attackers on Sunday evening, customers in the following locations: Egypt, Ethiopia, Morocco, Nigeria, Sudan Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Honduras, Mexico, Panama, United States Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Mongolia, Singapore, South Korea, Thailand Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Australia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary Italy, Luxemburg, Poland, Russia, Spain, Switzerland, Bahrain, Oman Saudi Arabia, UAE

by bjterry 11y ago

delbel 11y ago

I had to read that twice and figured I missed last week's Two Minutes of Hate.

agopaul 11y ago
Orwell's 1984?

Zigurd 11y ago

South Korea is fairly recently free-ish. Up until 1987 South Korea had a heavily US-influenced authoritarian government with a token legal opposition. The US still has a very strong influence in South Korea. There are also recent incidents that betray a lack of confidence in democracy: http://www.wsj.com/articles/south-korea-court-dissolves-left-wing-political-party-1418960046 http://www.wsj.com/articles/south-korea-court-dissolves-left... It's a perfectly nice place to visit. People there apparently feel free to talk about everything: The war, the Park era, etc. Unions can be quite militant. But they are not as free as Americans.

the_ancient 11y ago
Yes but 'Merica is freedom... I know because we just had 72 hours of colorful explosions declaring the freedom....
- Zigurd 11y ago
  It's all shades of gray. None of them on a trend toward lighter, it seems.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
curiousjorge 11y ago
Allegedly a South Korean assemblyman created a sleeper cell that would become 'activated' when North Korea attacks South Korea based on a testimony by an unknown member of the sleeper cell who have never appeared in public or known to even exist. They dissolved the opposition group based on a report by the NIS (intelligence agency of Korea with a long tradition of torturing and suppressing dissidents). The same agency also tied cement around former president Kim Dae Jung (who happens to be from the west province of Korea, who have long been oppressed and persecuted for centuries) after kidnapping him from a Japanese hotel during 70s, but just as they were about to throw him over the boat, guess who, American soldiers stopped them. You pick up a Korean newspaper, you are almost certainly reading a mouthpiece of the government. There are even more frightening stories during this time. Playing national anthem 4 oclock every fucking day, forcing people to stop what they are doing, and sing, many of which were propaganda songs composed by the president with the help of his daughter, the current president of Korea. The most scary one is where people just 'disappear' only to reappear in mental hospitals because they got a bit drunk and talked shit about the government during the 70s or 80s. Plenty of young men conscripted into Korean military would die because what the concept of human rights has long been an alien ideology, basically a curfew and martial law during this period where you couldn't do jack shit after 10pm or you'd get arrested or get a good beating. Let's not also get started with women's rights, but perhaps the most frustrating is the social fabric of Korea is hierachial and oppressive. Kindergarteners going to overly priced private tutors after school ends and coming home at midnight because they are told the same lie that studying will get you places, teachers beating kids with corporal punishment for low scores on exams, and the constant war drumming of the 'suffering' or 'han' of Korean history and teaching to hate neighboring countries, especially Japan. It's no wonder that millenial Koreans are desperate to leave the country, even if it means being a plumber in Germany with an advanced degrees. By no means has South Korea ever been a democracy, the same traditions continue but hidden beneath disinformation and surveillance of opponents.
- Shizka 11y ago
  This sounds quite different from all the things I have heard about South Korea and the general impression I have of the society and the people. Do you have some sources to back these claims up?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
veddox 11y ago
> But they are not as free as Americans. Oh, give over! As if the US of A were the ultimate land of freedom. With the NSA, Guantanamo, race-based police violence... [Disclaimer: I have nothing against the USA (well, almost nothing). But I can't stand people talking about it as if it was the only true democracy/free country/heaven on earth.]
- celticninja 11y ago
  But they have guns. For some reason there is the belief that if you have guns then you are more free than someone without guns. Perhaps because the original intention was that if you have an armed population then they cannot be ruled over by means of force or they would at least be able to rise up against their opressors in a meaningful fashion. Guns in America are a bit of an opiate for the masses, people have guns and feel free therefore they dont need to rise up against their government no matter what other constitutional freedoms they shit on as long as they dont attempt to take their guns they will pretty much let them get away with anything.
  - caskance 11y ago
    Freedom is a feeling. If you feel free, then you are free.
    - griffinmb 11y ago
      That's an interesting way of looking at it, though I disagree. Consider the society depicted in Brave New World (or, more recently, District 1 in the Hunger Games). It may be fiction, but I think it showcases a true-to-life phenomenon where people feel free only because of hyper-stimulation. Because they have so much, they don't think about everything they lack.
      - caskance 11y ago
        One could say the same about any so-called free people. Do you feel free? Even though you don't have eternal life? Even though you can't afford to fly to work every day in a jetpack? Even though you can't have sex with a woman other than your wife? If you have the things that matter to you, and can make the choices that are meaningful to you, then you are free.

reirob 11y ago

Update 5: Hacking Team currently has, based on internal documents leaked by the attackers on Sunday evening, customers in the following locations: Egypt, Ethiopia, Morocco, Nigeria, Sudan Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Honduras, Mexico, Panama, United States Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Mongolia, Singapore, South Korea, Thailand Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Australia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary Italy, Luxemburg, Poland, Russia, Spain, Switzerland, Bahrain, Oman Saudi Arabia, UAE