4 ms·

It's like everybody all of the sudden will come to the conclusion that paying their mortgages is somehow a humiliating and oppressive endeavor. Nobody is reall

It's like everybody all of the sudden will come to the conclusion that paying their mortgages is somehow a humiliating and oppressive endeavor. Nobody is really familiar with what the "oppressive" terms really are, but everybody feels like the Greeks are totally undeserving of paying their debts. How does everybody feel like to have their subway fares reduced to $0, the way the Greeks had them for the past decades? I think it is just fair that New Yorkers travel at the expense of the NY State, otherwise it is totally oppressive! /sarcasm Lots of projections in all these opinions. But for somebody that actually had to go through austerity measures, I am not happy to see others asking for a handout, with the only justification being "just because, Greek history". EDIT: and if you downvote, at least be New Yorker enough, and justify your action. Otherwise, I would say that you just want a handout.

mnglkhn2 11y ago
Only 300 of the area’s homes claimed to have swimming pools, which require owners to pay a luxury tax. But when officials looked into the low number, using Google Earth to scan the back yards, they found the number of pools to be closer to 20,000. The fraudsters responded by buying camouflage-print tarps to cover up their pools, the Mail reported. (http://nypost.com/2015/07/05/decades-of-fraud-have-swindled-greeks-out-of-billions/ http://nypost.com/2015/07/05/decades-of-fraud-have-swindled-...) In Greece, A Hairdresser Can Retire At 50 With Full Benefits (http://www.businessinsider.com/in-greece-you-can-retire-at-50-with-full-benefits-2010-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/in-greece-you-can-retire-at-5...)
llamataboot 11y ago
You do realize that plenty of US states carry a "deficit" right? Many states receive more money from the Federal budget than they pay back in. We can debate why this is the case, but I don't hear anyone telling Mississippi or Alabama to suck the bitter pill of austerity or leave the US.
- mnglkhn2 11y ago
  And for that these states accept the uniform monetary policy developed at federal level. Greece can have an argument if they would accept the same. But if you want to be independent from a fiscal point of view, then assume the whole thing.
- haberman 11y ago
  > You do realize that plenty of US states carry a "deficit" right? Many states receive more money from the Federal budget than they pay back in. That's not a "deficit." If that was a deficit, than every person in the US who pays less than $11,000 in tax would be running a "deficit." That's just the way governments work: the amount you pay in tax and the amount of services you get back from the government aren't always the same. But we do all have representation in the authority that chooses how to spend the pot of money. Greece is different because they have sovereignty over their budget. Greece's taxes aren't collected by the ECB (with enforcement power) and there is no European body deciding how the taxes will be spent.
- izacus 11y ago
  Note that plenty of countries receive EU funds as well (they're usually called net receivers) which is comparable to what you're talking about (see EU budgethttp://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jan/26/eu-budget-european-union-spending http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jan/26/eu-budg...). The Greek case of lying and spending way beyond any reasonable means does not compare to it.
- walshemj 11y ago
  But the USA is one country the EU is not
- tracker1 11y ago
  This is because the EU is setup as more of a confederation (pre-constituttional U.S. or even early constitutional U.S. prior to 1830's)... and EU nations maintain a lot of their independance. Also, many states are feeling a crunch on their federal funding, which I think is an entirely separate issue in the way things are structured myself. The U.S. also, historically speaking fought a very bloody civil war to keep states in the Union... (first rule of U.S. club, is you can never leave/quit U.S. club). Where as EU's history of unity/separation even in the last two centuries is very different. It's mostly a cultural difference. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more assertiveness to state level governments in the U.S. ... even though I don't agree with typical politics in, for example, Texas, I appreciate their assertiveness in recent years.
tomp 11y ago
> It's like everybody all of the sudden will come to the conclusion that paying their mortgages is somehow a humiliating and oppressive endeavor. The better analogy is the handling of "deadbeat dads" who don't pay child support. The government's response is to confiscate their drivers license. It doesn't require a genius that then they really won't be able to pay child support. At least in the case when non-payment was the result of unemployment or lower salary, which was undoubtedly a significant number of cases.
- mnglkhn2 11y ago
  I agree with your point. And it is true that the austerity measures have hit the most vulnerable in the society. But I found it problematic to maintain that the whole Greece is made of "deadbeat dads", my point being that the Greek elite is not shouldering their part of the recovery effort.
  - tomp 11y ago
    > But I found it problematic to maintain that the whole Greece is made of "deadbeat dads", my point being that the Greek elite is not shouldering their part of the recovery effort. I didn't mean to imply that. The only similarity I was relying upon was non-payment of their legal obligations.
ZeroGravitas 11y ago
A bunch of Americans did decide that, and just let the banks seize their houses rather than pointlessly make payments that they couldn't meet long term on underwater mortgages. The Greek position is relatively similar. There is blame on both sides of such a loan, and more for the banks if the number or size of these loans threatens their very business when people default.
Amezarak 11y ago
> But for somebody that actually had to go through austerity measures, I am not happy to see others asking for a handout, with the only justification being "just because, Greek history". I am sorry. You should never have had to go through austerity either. We know better and we have no excuse for putting countries through austerity. The impact of austerity policies is obvious when you look at the countries in Europe so afflicted. But that doesn't mean because you suffered, others must continue to suffer. We should do better.

mnglkhn2 11y ago

Only 300 of the area’s homes claimed to have swimming pools, which require owners to pay a luxury tax. But when officials looked into the low number, using Google Earth to scan the back yards, they found the number of pools to be closer to 20,000. The fraudsters responded by buying camouflage-print tarps to cover up their pools, the Mail reported. (http://nypost.com/2015/07/05/decades-of-fraud-have-swindled-greeks-out-of-billions/ http://nypost.com/2015/07/05/decades-of-fraud-have-swindled-...) In Greece, A Hairdresser Can Retire At 50 With Full Benefits (http://www.businessinsider.com/in-greece-you-can-retire-at-50-with-full-benefits-2010-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/in-greece-you-can-retire-at-5...)

llamataboot 11y ago

You do realize that plenty of US states carry a "deficit" right? Many states receive more money from the Federal budget than they pay back in. We can debate why this is the case, but I don't hear anyone telling Mississippi or Alabama to suck the bitter pill of austerity or leave the US.

mnglkhn2 11y ago
And for that these states accept the uniform monetary policy developed at federal level. Greece can have an argument if they would accept the same. But if you want to be independent from a fiscal point of view, then assume the whole thing.
haberman 11y ago
> You do realize that plenty of US states carry a "deficit" right? Many states receive more money from the Federal budget than they pay back in. That's not a "deficit." If that was a deficit, than every person in the US who pays less than $11,000 in tax would be running a "deficit." That's just the way governments work: the amount you pay in tax and the amount of services you get back from the government aren't always the same. But we do all have representation in the authority that chooses how to spend the pot of money. Greece is different because they have sovereignty over their budget. Greece's taxes aren't collected by the ECB (with enforcement power) and there is no European body deciding how the taxes will be spent.
izacus 11y ago
Note that plenty of countries receive EU funds as well (they're usually called net receivers) which is comparable to what you're talking about (see EU budgethttp://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jan/26/eu-budget-european-union-spending http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jan/26/eu-budg...). The Greek case of lying and spending way beyond any reasonable means does not compare to it.
walshemj 11y ago
But the USA is one country the EU is not
tracker1 11y ago
This is because the EU is setup as more of a confederation (pre-constituttional U.S. or even early constitutional U.S. prior to 1830's)... and EU nations maintain a lot of their independance. Also, many states are feeling a crunch on their federal funding, which I think is an entirely separate issue in the way things are structured myself. The U.S. also, historically speaking fought a very bloody civil war to keep states in the Union... (first rule of U.S. club, is you can never leave/quit U.S. club). Where as EU's history of unity/separation even in the last two centuries is very different. It's mostly a cultural difference. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more assertiveness to state level governments in the U.S. ... even though I don't agree with typical politics in, for example, Texas, I appreciate their assertiveness in recent years.

tomp 11y ago

> It's like everybody all of the sudden will come to the conclusion that paying their mortgages is somehow a humiliating and oppressive endeavor. The better analogy is the handling of "deadbeat dads" who don't pay child support. The government's response is to confiscate their drivers license. It doesn't require a genius that then they really won't be able to pay child support. At least in the case when non-payment was the result of unemployment or lower salary, which was undoubtedly a significant number of cases.

mnglkhn2 11y ago
I agree with your point. And it is true that the austerity measures have hit the most vulnerable in the society. But I found it problematic to maintain that the whole Greece is made of "deadbeat dads", my point being that the Greek elite is not shouldering their part of the recovery effort.
- tomp 11y ago
  > But I found it problematic to maintain that the whole Greece is made of "deadbeat dads", my point being that the Greek elite is not shouldering their part of the recovery effort. I didn't mean to imply that. The only similarity I was relying upon was non-payment of their legal obligations.

ZeroGravitas 11y ago

A bunch of Americans did decide that, and just let the banks seize their houses rather than pointlessly make payments that they couldn't meet long term on underwater mortgages. The Greek position is relatively similar. There is blame on both sides of such a loan, and more for the banks if the number or size of these loans threatens their very business when people default.

Amezarak 11y ago

> But for somebody that actually had to go through austerity measures, I am not happy to see others asking for a handout, with the only justification being "just because, Greek history". I am sorry. You should never have had to go through austerity either. We know better and we have no excuse for putting countries through austerity. The impact of austerity policies is obvious when you look at the countries in Europe so afflicted. But that doesn't mean because you suffered, others must continue to suffer. We should do better.