5 ms·

I really hope EU doesn't propose any more bailouts / help to them until they sober up and go through the withdrawal and all the grief stages.

tomp 11y ago
Greece doesn't actually need any more bailouts (at least, it didn't until last week). They run a primary budget surplus, so all they need from the EU & IMF is some kind of debt restructuring so they can stop all debt payments for a few years while they pass the necessary reforms and their economy recovers. They also need a guarantee that the banks are safe by the ECB to restore confidence, but that doesn't cost any money.
- imaginenore 11y ago
  "They run a primary budget surplus" if you don't count the payments on all the loans. Sorry, but if I borrow a million dollars, build some business that generates profits which are less than the payments on the loan, it's not a surplus. It's called default.
  - quonn 11y ago
    > if you don't count the payments on all the loans. That's the definition of primary surplus. > but if I loan a million dollars, build some business that generates profits which are less than the payments on the loan, it's not a surplus Greece does not get the loans now - that money is already gone. The key insight from the "primary surplus" is that a haircut would work, because Greece could be self-sufficient once the debt burden is gone.
    - imaginenore 11y ago
      It's semantics, at the end of the day Greece owes money, and you simply cherry-picked a term that doesn't contain that debt. > The key insight from the "primary surplus" is that a haircut would work, because Greece could be self-sufficient once the debt burden is gone. And so would my hypothetical business that can't even cover the monthly payments on the loan. If we magically erase the debt, just like that, I got a profitable business I can brag about. > Greece does not get the loans now - that money is already gone Wow, just wow.
- dragandj 11y ago
  That does not cost Greeks any money, but it does cost ECB to throw good money after bad.
- wmkn 11y ago
  The IMF released a report last week stating that in addition to substantial debt relief the Greeks need an additional bailout of EUR60 billion. Both Varoufakis and Tsipras tweeted their agreement with the report. It seems pretty clear that Greece won't make it without another big bailout package.
- derriz 11y ago
  They are NOT running a primary surplus - this claim has been debunked. http://www.dw.com/en/the-truth-about-greeces-primary-surplus/a-17613105 http://www.dw.com/en/the-truth-about-greeces-primary-surplus... http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/02/16/greece-still-has-a-vast-problem-it-doesnt-have-a-primary-budget-surplus/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/02/16/greece-st...

tomp 11y ago

Greece doesn't actually need any more bailouts (at least, it didn't until last week). They run a primary budget surplus, so all they need from the EU & IMF is some kind of debt restructuring so they can stop all debt payments for a few years while they pass the necessary reforms and their economy recovers. They also need a guarantee that the banks are safe by the ECB to restore confidence, but that doesn't cost any money.

imaginenore 11y ago
"They run a primary budget surplus" if you don't count the payments on all the loans. Sorry, but if I borrow a million dollars, build some business that generates profits which are less than the payments on the loan, it's not a surplus. It's called default.
- quonn 11y ago
  > if you don't count the payments on all the loans. That's the definition of primary surplus. > but if I loan a million dollars, build some business that generates profits which are less than the payments on the loan, it's not a surplus Greece does not get the loans now - that money is already gone. The key insight from the "primary surplus" is that a haircut would work, because Greece could be self-sufficient once the debt burden is gone.
  - imaginenore 11y ago
    It's semantics, at the end of the day Greece owes money, and you simply cherry-picked a term that doesn't contain that debt. > The key insight from the "primary surplus" is that a haircut would work, because Greece could be self-sufficient once the debt burden is gone. And so would my hypothetical business that can't even cover the monthly payments on the loan. If we magically erase the debt, just like that, I got a profitable business I can brag about. > Greece does not get the loans now - that money is already gone Wow, just wow.
dragandj 11y ago
That does not cost Greeks any money, but it does cost ECB to throw good money after bad.
wmkn 11y ago
The IMF released a report last week stating that in addition to substantial debt relief the Greeks need an additional bailout of EUR60 billion. Both Varoufakis and Tsipras tweeted their agreement with the report. It seems pretty clear that Greece won't make it without another big bailout package.
derriz 11y ago
They are NOT running a primary surplus - this claim has been debunked. http://www.dw.com/en/the-truth-about-greeces-primary-surplus/a-17613105 http://www.dw.com/en/the-truth-about-greeces-primary-surplus... http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/02/16/greece-still-has-a-vast-problem-it-doesnt-have-a-primary-budget-surplus/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/02/16/greece-st...