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Greece is in bad shape but might actually do better from having more independent control while sorting out its finances as the direction from Europe at the mome

Greece is in bad shape but might actually do better from having more independent control while sorting out its finances as the direction from Europe at the moment suffers from severe conflicts of interest. Either a yes or no vote could have bad consequences as Greece is between a rock and a hard place right now, but the reputation of the Eurozone leaders is what really took a hit here, not Greece.

jedmeyers 11y ago
What does "sorting out finances" even mean in the context of a country that does not actually produce/export anything[1]? Will they somehow make money appear without outside investments? [1] compared to UK, France, Germany
- elektromekatron 11y ago
  Irrespective of snark, it means sorting out finances. As a percentage of their GDP, Greece has a larger industrial sector than the UK, and they also have the world's largest merchant navy. Greece should have no problem in having a functioning economy, this current crisis is all structural, not fundamental. edited to add, I would also not be hasty to write off the Greeks, of all people, as unable to construct innovative economic and political solutions in a crisis. They have form.
  - raesene9 11y ago
    That seems unlikely I'm afraid. Their banking sector is insolvent and without ECB support it will not revive without a return to the drachma and a devaluation. ECB support seems unlikely unless Greece is within an approved bailout programme and that in turns looks unlikely as it took 5 months of negoatiations to come close to the last agreement and that was only to complete an existing programme, not start a new one. The process of issuing a new currency takes, from what I've read, months, during which the Greek economy will be in limbo, which will do a large amount of damage. Sure in the long term they would get increased competitiveness from being a cheaper source of goods as the drachma devalues, but that'll be after an extremely painful banking event.
    - elektromekatron 11y ago
      I do wonder if we will get to see a Drachma blockchain.
- mike_hearn 11y ago
  They do produce and export things (note: tourism is a kind of export). Some of the news stories have anecdotes from manufacturers complaining they cannot import the raw materials they need. The problem is they import a lot more. Including things like food, fuel and electricity. Sorting out Greece's finances mean a very sharp and severe recession that makes what they went through so far look like a stroll through a grassy meadow. Eviction from the EU is not entirely unthinkable, especially if the collapse triggers a refugee crisis with a lot of internal migration.
  - elektromekatron 11y ago
    I think you have it wrong, they are a major food producer for the EU.

jedmeyers 11y ago

What does "sorting out finances" even mean in the context of a country that does not actually produce/export anything[1]? Will they somehow make money appear without outside investments? [1] compared to UK, France, Germany

elektromekatron 11y ago
Irrespective of snark, it means sorting out finances. As a percentage of their GDP, Greece has a larger industrial sector than the UK, and they also have the world's largest merchant navy. Greece should have no problem in having a functioning economy, this current crisis is all structural, not fundamental. edited to add, I would also not be hasty to write off the Greeks, of all people, as unable to construct innovative economic and political solutions in a crisis. They have form.
- raesene9 11y ago
  That seems unlikely I'm afraid. Their banking sector is insolvent and without ECB support it will not revive without a return to the drachma and a devaluation. ECB support seems unlikely unless Greece is within an approved bailout programme and that in turns looks unlikely as it took 5 months of negoatiations to come close to the last agreement and that was only to complete an existing programme, not start a new one. The process of issuing a new currency takes, from what I've read, months, during which the Greek economy will be in limbo, which will do a large amount of damage. Sure in the long term they would get increased competitiveness from being a cheaper source of goods as the drachma devalues, but that'll be after an extremely painful banking event.
  - elektromekatron 11y ago
    I do wonder if we will get to see a Drachma blockchain.
mike_hearn 11y ago
They do produce and export things (note: tourism is a kind of export). Some of the news stories have anecdotes from manufacturers complaining they cannot import the raw materials they need. The problem is they import a lot more. Including things like food, fuel and electricity. Sorting out Greece's finances mean a very sharp and severe recession that makes what they went through so far look like a stroll through a grassy meadow. Eviction from the EU is not entirely unthinkable, especially if the collapse triggers a refugee crisis with a lot of internal migration.
- elektromekatron 11y ago
  I think you have it wrong, they are a major food producer for the EU.