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Damaging my mind is my biggest fear. I had a simple surgery a year ago(shoulder arthroscopy), and I specifically said that I don't agree to general anesthesia o

by rayalez 11y ago

Damaging my mind is my biggest fear. I had a simple surgery a year ago(shoulder arthroscopy), and I specifically said that I don't agree to general anesthesia or any kind of sedatives, because even a small probability of a small brain damage isn't worth it for me. Doctors tried to push me into accepting the general anesthesia, saying that it's the only option(and that we lose brain cells every day really, so who cares). I went to a different clinic where a doctor agreed to do the surgery under local anesthetics and without sedation without any problems. Said someting along the lines "don't worry, man, your brain is gonna be fine." He failed to mention that local anesthesia can also lead to neurotoxicity, and I was too ignorant to know about it(for some reason I assumed that local anesthetics are harmless, and didn't do my research). During the surgery I felt the symptomps(dizziness, difficulty speaking), consistent with neurotoxicity caused by local anesthetics. I don't notice any permanent damage, though I doubt that I'd be able to tell. 6 months after the surgery I have developed tinnitus, but I can't tell if it's connected to it or not. Anyway, my point is that no way in hell would I agree to the surgery if I'd have known the risks. Also, before that, doctors pushed me into unnecessarily taking general anesthesia for a routine procedure. They convinced me that it can't be harmful, and I was too young and socially awkward to ask more questions or argue. I also fear dental anesthetics. There is research indicating that they can cause neurotoxocity. I can easily sit through filling regular cavities(with a dental laser it really isn't that painful), but I'm not sure what I would do if I have to get root canal. I would take any option over anesthesia, but I don't know of any alternative. Some doctors say that it's just an irrational fear. But given that there's some research saying that even dental anesthesia can cause neurotixicity, I'm not sure what's so irrational about not wanting my brain cells to die. My brain is what matters to me the most in the world, far more than anything else, it has infinite value, because that's literally "me", so even small chance of small damage is worth avoiding at all cost(in my value system). It's infuriating how casual doctors are about such risks, especially in cases when they can be avoided. I understand taking necessary risks when it's a life-saving surgery, but when you have alternatives, I think patient should be able to make an informed choice.

DanBC 11y ago
The "irrationality"[1] is the weight you put on the unknown risk of brain-harm from anaesthesia, while not appearing to assign much risk to how you get there. How likely is it that you're going to suffer brain injury in your day to day life versus from anaesthetic? [1] irrational is probably a not useful word here. You have real fear of real things.
- rayalez 11y ago
  > while not appearing to assign much risk to how you get there. I'm not sure what you mean by this, can you rephrase it? If you are saying that I'm not putting enough weight on the risks of avoiding the procedure - let me be clear, I'm talking about cases where anesthesia is optional, and is a matter of pain vs comfort. I know that avoiding root canal puts me at risk of dying from infection, so of course I wouldn't avoid doing it, and it makes sense to prefer "treating tooth with anesthesia" over "not trating a tooth." But I could have avoided that surgery(it was about quality of life, not survival), and I could've avoided anesthesia if I was willing to suffer some pain/discomfort. And that should be my choice to make. I think that it is rational to take short term pain over (even small) probability of long term brain damage. If I could take some reasonable amount of pain over brain damage risk, I would take it any time, and it would be the right choice. My problem with root canal is that I don't think I could handle the pain without anesthetics. So I fear that when faced with choice "a lot of pain" vs "safety for my brain" I will fear the pain, take anesthetics, and betray my values. Do you see my problem here? If brain has literally "infinite" value, then no matter how infinitesimal risks are, it is rational to minimize them at all cost. If doing the procedure minimizes them, it is rational to do it, if it doesn't - the right thing is to avoid it. Correct me if I misunderstood what you're saying. > How likely is it that you're going to suffer brain injury > in your day to day life versus from anaesthetic? Ehm... Less likely? Possible, but less likely.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Having an anasthetic carries some risk. How much? How many people per million suffer the adverse outcome you fear? Now compare that to the risk of day to day life. How much has the risk increased? There's a bunch of stuff you do that you don't need to do that carries more risk than anaesthetic. It's fine for you to chose your medical care. You might want to investigate an "advance health care directive". Having one should persuade doctors that you have spent time thinking about this and it is your sincere and considered desire to ignore their advice to have anasthesia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_health_care_directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_health_care_directive
GoodOldNe 11y ago
He failed to mention that local anesthesia can also lead to neurotoxicity, and I was too ignorant to know about it(for some reason I assumed that local anesthetics are harmless, and didn't do my research). You get that "neurotoxicity" in this case is almost exclusively referring to deleterious effects that local anesthetics can have on nerves at the site of injection, right? Subcutaneous injection of local anesthetics will have very little, if any, involvement with your brain. You did the right thing finding a surgeon that would work with a block instead of GA if you were concerned about the (potentially real, if not that bad, effects of GA) but I think your fears of local anesthetics causing CNS damage are overblown and I wouldn't want others to refuse the use of them in themselves or their children based on your post.
Romme 11y ago
I got tinnitus a week after a dental procedure with anesthesia. Don't know how to live with it, to be honest. Your fear is anything but irrational.
- rayalez 11y ago
  Hey, don't worry about it. Tinnitus fucking sucks, but over time you get used to it. It's hard to believe at the beginning, but gradually it bothers you less and less. Eventually you can focus on whatever you are doing and not notice it anymore. For now try not to freak out or get depressed about it, turn on air conditioner or running water to mask the noise. Try taking ginko, try taking melatonin for sleep. Listen to music or audiobooks when it's too annoying(not too loud to not cause any more damage). Visit a doctor and get some advice from him. Go to a support forum or subreddit if it gets bad. If you are lucky enough to be living in US - check out what trials you can enroll in. Some of them can probably help. People are workong on a cure and making some progress.

by rayalez 11y ago

DanBC 11y ago

The "irrationality"[1] is the weight you put on the unknown risk of brain-harm from anaesthesia, while not appearing to assign much risk to how you get there. How likely is it that you're going to suffer brain injury in your day to day life versus from anaesthetic? [1] irrational is probably a not useful word here. You have real fear of real things.

rayalez 11y ago
> while not appearing to assign much risk to how you get there. I'm not sure what you mean by this, can you rephrase it? If you are saying that I'm not putting enough weight on the risks of avoiding the procedure - let me be clear, I'm talking about cases where anesthesia is optional, and is a matter of pain vs comfort. I know that avoiding root canal puts me at risk of dying from infection, so of course I wouldn't avoid doing it, and it makes sense to prefer "treating tooth with anesthesia" over "not trating a tooth." But I could have avoided that surgery(it was about quality of life, not survival), and I could've avoided anesthesia if I was willing to suffer some pain/discomfort. And that should be my choice to make. I think that it is rational to take short term pain over (even small) probability of long term brain damage. If I could take some reasonable amount of pain over brain damage risk, I would take it any time, and it would be the right choice. My problem with root canal is that I don't think I could handle the pain without anesthetics. So I fear that when faced with choice "a lot of pain" vs "safety for my brain" I will fear the pain, take anesthetics, and betray my values. Do you see my problem here? If brain has literally "infinite" value, then no matter how infinitesimal risks are, it is rational to minimize them at all cost. If doing the procedure minimizes them, it is rational to do it, if it doesn't - the right thing is to avoid it. Correct me if I misunderstood what you're saying. > How likely is it that you're going to suffer brain injury > in your day to day life versus from anaesthetic? Ehm... Less likely? Possible, but less likely.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Having an anasthetic carries some risk. How much? How many people per million suffer the adverse outcome you fear? Now compare that to the risk of day to day life. How much has the risk increased? There's a bunch of stuff you do that you don't need to do that carries more risk than anaesthetic. It's fine for you to chose your medical care. You might want to investigate an "advance health care directive". Having one should persuade doctors that you have spent time thinking about this and it is your sincere and considered desire to ignore their advice to have anasthesia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_health_care_directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_health_care_directive

GoodOldNe 11y ago

He failed to mention that local anesthesia can also lead to neurotoxicity, and I was too ignorant to know about it(for some reason I assumed that local anesthetics are harmless, and didn't do my research). You get that "neurotoxicity" in this case is almost exclusively referring to deleterious effects that local anesthetics can have on nerves at the site of injection, right? Subcutaneous injection of local anesthetics will have very little, if any, involvement with your brain. You did the right thing finding a surgeon that would work with a block instead of GA if you were concerned about the (potentially real, if not that bad, effects of GA) but I think your fears of local anesthetics causing CNS damage are overblown and I wouldn't want others to refuse the use of them in themselves or their children based on your post.

Romme 11y ago

I got tinnitus a week after a dental procedure with anesthesia. Don't know how to live with it, to be honest. Your fear is anything but irrational.

rayalez 11y ago
Hey, don't worry about it. Tinnitus fucking sucks, but over time you get used to it. It's hard to believe at the beginning, but gradually it bothers you less and less. Eventually you can focus on whatever you are doing and not notice it anymore. For now try not to freak out or get depressed about it, turn on air conditioner or running water to mask the noise. Try taking ginko, try taking melatonin for sleep. Listen to music or audiobooks when it's too annoying(not too loud to not cause any more damage). Visit a doctor and get some advice from him. Go to a support forum or subreddit if it gets bad. If you are lucky enough to be living in US - check out what trials you can enroll in. Some of them can probably help. People are workong on a cure and making some progress.