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I've meet a handful of young greeks(Age: 17-29) since 2010 and when asked about their situation, especially the unemployment rate they all said the same thing,

by revanx_ 11y ago

I've meet a handful of young greeks(Age: 17-29) since 2010 and when asked about their situation, especially the unemployment rate they all said the same thing, young greeks don't want to work unless it's a high paying gov. secure job with 6 hours a day 5 days a week schedule. Ironically all of them were gamers but considering that the unemployment rate is about 50% with young greeks, it's hard to argue with that. Also one important thing was said many times, most of greeks try to avoid taxes or they don't pay them at all. They've told me this is especially rampant in tourism. It's hard to argue with that, depending on where you traveled you can experience this first hand. It's so easy to blame everyone else for your own problems, lets not forget how much money has actually been pushed to Greece since 2010 via financial injections and what have they done with it? What good is it to keep pushing more and more money into Greece when the people and it's gov don't want to change and without change how can you expect any progress?

bcg1 11y ago
You make good points but it is multifaceted. The money "pushed to Greece" isn't really available for them to squander as you're suggesting... it is used to roll over loans from private European banking institutions that were reckless and stupid to buy Greek bonds in the first place, and place them on the backs of taxpayers instead. Greeks are understandably ticked off that they are being choked out by the conditions of rolling over those loans, for which they see little benefit.
pjmlp 11y ago
It is so easy to tell people how they should behave from the outside. I am portuguese and my country is quite similar to Greece. I do know it quite well. Many of those behaviors have deep roots in our societies. It just doesn't work someone from the outside coming and shouting at us how 10 million people should behave. Try to leave in our countries for an year, then see how things are.
spystath 11y ago
Being greek in the same age group I dare to say that what you support is a blatant and dangerously ignorant lie. There are tons of people that have law or engineering degrees and would be grateful for a supermarket cashier job or flipping burgers. There is a serious problem with greek young people, they are basically a burnt generation, doomed to either chronic unemployment, ridiculously low-paying jobs (<500 euro/mo), or emigration, so I find your assertion deeply insulting. I'm getting tired of the "lazy, tax-evading, early retiring greeks" mantra being repeated everywhere. I expect generalisations from reddit, but I expected something better from HN.
- jensen123 11y ago
  I don't know about young people, but I heard that until recently the normal retirement age in Greece was 62. Isn't this true?
- revanx_ 11y ago
  The problem of young people with academic degrees that can't find a job is not a problem isolated to Greece, this is happening everywhere. As far as your comments, all I can say is that I shaped my opinion based on statistics and what other greeks told me. You can't deny the fact that in the last decade, greeks have become accustomed to a certain life style that can no longer be maintained.
  - kylebrown 11y ago
    > You can't deny the fact that in the last decade, greeks have become accustomed to a certain life style that can no longer be maintained. The point of the article is that the 'moral hazard' of lending and borrowing cuts both ways. What about the lifestyle of European bankers & elites? The lifestyle of elites was funded by their reckless lending, buying up "idiot paper" left and right (not just Greece). They believe themselves entitled to collect high-interest rents regardless of the risk which is priced into the interest rate! To stretch an analogy, it'd be like Venture Capitalists blaming the startups for failing to earn returns on their investments.Rather than take responsibility for making risky investments, they demonize startup founders and employees, and threaten to break their legs until they pay back the firm. Its "loan-shark theatre" between governments and central banks, with politicians stoking nationalist sentiment and stereotypes (as politicians do) in the service of elites (i.e. the creditors). Maybe you should read the article, instead of asserting "undeniable facts" (p.s. the greek economy has been in a worsening great depression for the last decade; and your handful of gamer acquaintances are a non-representative sample).

by revanx_ 11y ago

bcg1 11y ago

You make good points but it is multifaceted. The money "pushed to Greece" isn't really available for them to squander as you're suggesting... it is used to roll over loans from private European banking institutions that were reckless and stupid to buy Greek bonds in the first place, and place them on the backs of taxpayers instead. Greeks are understandably ticked off that they are being choked out by the conditions of rolling over those loans, for which they see little benefit.

pjmlp 11y ago

It is so easy to tell people how they should behave from the outside. I am portuguese and my country is quite similar to Greece. I do know it quite well. Many of those behaviors have deep roots in our societies. It just doesn't work someone from the outside coming and shouting at us how 10 million people should behave. Try to leave in our countries for an year, then see how things are.

spystath 11y ago

Being greek in the same age group I dare to say that what you support is a blatant and dangerously ignorant lie. There are tons of people that have law or engineering degrees and would be grateful for a supermarket cashier job or flipping burgers. There is a serious problem with greek young people, they are basically a burnt generation, doomed to either chronic unemployment, ridiculously low-paying jobs (<500 euro/mo), or emigration, so I find your assertion deeply insulting. I'm getting tired of the "lazy, tax-evading, early retiring greeks" mantra being repeated everywhere. I expect generalisations from reddit, but I expected something better from HN.

jensen123 11y ago
I don't know about young people, but I heard that until recently the normal retirement age in Greece was 62. Isn't this true?
revanx_ 11y ago
The problem of young people with academic degrees that can't find a job is not a problem isolated to Greece, this is happening everywhere. As far as your comments, all I can say is that I shaped my opinion based on statistics and what other greeks told me. You can't deny the fact that in the last decade, greeks have become accustomed to a certain life style that can no longer be maintained.
- kylebrown 11y ago
  > You can't deny the fact that in the last decade, greeks have become accustomed to a certain life style that can no longer be maintained. The point of the article is that the 'moral hazard' of lending and borrowing cuts both ways. What about the lifestyle of European bankers & elites? The lifestyle of elites was funded by their reckless lending, buying up "idiot paper" left and right (not just Greece). They believe themselves entitled to collect high-interest rents regardless of the risk which is priced into the interest rate! To stretch an analogy, it'd be like Venture Capitalists blaming the startups for failing to earn returns on their investments.Rather than take responsibility for making risky investments, they demonize startup founders and employees, and threaten to break their legs until they pay back the firm. Its "loan-shark theatre" between governments and central banks, with politicians stoking nationalist sentiment and stereotypes (as politicians do) in the service of elites (i.e. the creditors). Maybe you should read the article, instead of asserting "undeniable facts" (p.s. the greek economy has been in a worsening great depression for the last decade; and your handful of gamer acquaintances are a non-representative sample).