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It's not "stagnating", there's simply not much need to "innovate" it anymore. It works well for both new and advanced users. Changing the standard UI would just

It's not "stagnating", there's simply not much need to "innovate" it anymore. It works well for both new and advanced users. Changing the standard UI would just be a pointless frustration - see Windows 8.

sanoli 11y ago
I always laugh when I hear someone complaining about the WIMP model where their main argument is "it's been the same way for xx years, with no real innovation since its beginning". Right, and the steering wheel sucks so bad as a driving interface because it's so old and hasn't changed any. A couple of years ago there were these 3D interfaces being designed, with the intention of replacing the WIMP dsktop 2D space, and I remember one guy saying how the biggest mistake in computer interfaces was done because somebody decided to attach a typewriter to a TV, meaning we only took what we had and used them as models for what to do (typewriter->keyboard; TV->monitor). Sorry, but no, the stuff worked, and it worked pretty well. It's like this not because it sucks, but because it's actually quite good. I also always think about the simple light switch on every wall. Not to be replaced with sensors so soon, even though it always seems like it's close to being so.
- metasean 11y ago
  Changing for change sake is bad, but questioning long-held assumptions can lead to highly desirable changes. I largely agree that what we have works, but I also like to see how it may change. One example that's been big in my life is the transition from a mouse to a trackpad. The mouse worked in many cases, but it was a nuisance for laptops. In my case, they also caused excruciating repetitive stress related-tendinitis which, thankfully, a laptop trackpad doesn't. Funny you mention simple light switches not being "replaced with sensors so soon". Years ago, the very first modification I made when I moved into my house was to replace many of the simple light switches with motion, light, and time-based sensors, and a few with dimmer switches.
  - jimmaswell 11y ago
    I always found trackpads to hurt my hand somewhat after a while in contrast with mice. Maybe you just had bad mice?
    - metasean 11y ago
      I tried multiple mice, trained myself to use my non-dominant hand for mousing, tried trackballs, and even tried a separate trackpad in the place that a normal mouse or trackball would be place - all to no avail. In addition to avoiding detached pointer devices, I try really hard to use keyboard commands when possible. As a related side-note: I'd love an application that would automatically show me any relevant keyboard shortcuts when I use my trackpad. For example, if I were to click-and-drag over this sentence, then a reminder that I could use shift-option-arrows to quickly select words would pop up. Edit to add: human bodies have a wide range of differences, which accounts for why one category of device causes each of us problems while another doesn't, and yet the category that causes problems between us is inverse.
SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
OSX has never gotten the basic keyboard interactions right that Windows has had from the beginning: The ability to trivially navigate menus from the keyboard. I want Alt-F to open the file menu, and then "S" to save a file. Yes, I know that the Mac has Cmd-S to save, but there can be 50+ menu options spread across various menus, and the 10-15 that I use the most are far easier to remember (for me) as Alt-[menu letter], [hot letter of menu entry]. When you know what the underlined letters mean, it makes every new app have a completely discoverable keyboard interface that is easy to memorize, and it's one of the key advantages of Windows of OSX. That feature alone is why I only use Windows and Linux (except when I am forced to use OSX to do iOS builds) for development.
- wingerlang 11y ago
  What about 'CMD'+'?'
  - SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
    Does that bring up a place to type a command to search for? Doesn't work for me. I don't often use the global search feature on Windows (I hate the broken new start "menu" for that reason) because my brain doesn't work that way; if I have to think up the name of the feature and type it, I've already burned too many cycles. It is useful to have a command search for when you can't remember. But I want a faster way to get to commands that uses fewer brain-CPU cycles.
    - wingerlang 11y ago
      It should, on OSX this is. > It is useful to have a command search for when you can't remember. I never saw it as a search method, just a quick way of finding the menu item you're looking for. It also brings the menu itself up to the view which gives you the location itself.
- drewgross 11y ago
  I totally agree with you, Windows does it better, but cmd+shift+/ is a pretty good replacement. It opens the help menu, and then you can just type the name of the command you are looking for. It doesn't handle the case where you don't know a program well, but it's quite good at the case where you know a feature should exist, but you don't know the shortcut for it.

sanoli 11y ago

I always laugh when I hear someone complaining about the WIMP model where their main argument is "it's been the same way for xx years, with no real innovation since its beginning". Right, and the steering wheel sucks so bad as a driving interface because it's so old and hasn't changed any. A couple of years ago there were these 3D interfaces being designed, with the intention of replacing the WIMP dsktop 2D space, and I remember one guy saying how the biggest mistake in computer interfaces was done because somebody decided to attach a typewriter to a TV, meaning we only took what we had and used them as models for what to do (typewriter->keyboard; TV->monitor). Sorry, but no, the stuff worked, and it worked pretty well. It's like this not because it sucks, but because it's actually quite good. I also always think about the simple light switch on every wall. Not to be replaced with sensors so soon, even though it always seems like it's close to being so.

metasean 11y ago
Changing for change sake is bad, but questioning long-held assumptions can lead to highly desirable changes. I largely agree that what we have works, but I also like to see how it may change. One example that's been big in my life is the transition from a mouse to a trackpad. The mouse worked in many cases, but it was a nuisance for laptops. In my case, they also caused excruciating repetitive stress related-tendinitis which, thankfully, a laptop trackpad doesn't. Funny you mention simple light switches not being "replaced with sensors so soon". Years ago, the very first modification I made when I moved into my house was to replace many of the simple light switches with motion, light, and time-based sensors, and a few with dimmer switches.
- jimmaswell 11y ago
  I always found trackpads to hurt my hand somewhat after a while in contrast with mice. Maybe you just had bad mice?
  - metasean 11y ago
    I tried multiple mice, trained myself to use my non-dominant hand for mousing, tried trackballs, and even tried a separate trackpad in the place that a normal mouse or trackball would be place - all to no avail. In addition to avoiding detached pointer devices, I try really hard to use keyboard commands when possible. As a related side-note: I'd love an application that would automatically show me any relevant keyboard shortcuts when I use my trackpad. For example, if I were to click-and-drag over this sentence, then a reminder that I could use shift-option-arrows to quickly select words would pop up. Edit to add: human bodies have a wide range of differences, which accounts for why one category of device causes each of us problems while another doesn't, and yet the category that causes problems between us is inverse.

SomeCallMeTim 11y ago

OSX has never gotten the basic keyboard interactions right that Windows has had from the beginning: The ability to trivially navigate menus from the keyboard. I want Alt-F to open the file menu, and then "S" to save a file. Yes, I know that the Mac has Cmd-S to save, but there can be 50+ menu options spread across various menus, and the 10-15 that I use the most are far easier to remember (for me) as Alt-[menu letter], [hot letter of menu entry]. When you know what the underlined letters mean, it makes every new app have a completely discoverable keyboard interface that is easy to memorize, and it's one of the key advantages of Windows of OSX. That feature alone is why I only use Windows and Linux (except when I am forced to use OSX to do iOS builds) for development.

wingerlang 11y ago
What about 'CMD'+'?'
- SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
  Does that bring up a place to type a command to search for? Doesn't work for me. I don't often use the global search feature on Windows (I hate the broken new start "menu" for that reason) because my brain doesn't work that way; if I have to think up the name of the feature and type it, I've already burned too many cycles. It is useful to have a command search for when you can't remember. But I want a faster way to get to commands that uses fewer brain-CPU cycles.
  - wingerlang 11y ago
    It should, on OSX this is. > It is useful to have a command search for when you can't remember. I never saw it as a search method, just a quick way of finding the menu item you're looking for. It also brings the menu itself up to the view which gives you the location itself.
drewgross 11y ago
I totally agree with you, Windows does it better, but cmd+shift+/ is a pretty good replacement. It opens the help menu, and then you can just type the name of the command you are looking for. It doesn't handle the case where you don't know a program well, but it's quite good at the case where you know a feature should exist, but you don't know the shortcut for it.