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> municipalities generally run water and sewage services without complaints I'd largely agree with this from my own experience. The caveat here in comparing w

> municipalities generally run water and sewage services without complaints I'd largely agree with this from my own experience. The caveat here in comparing water & sewage to internet service is that water and sewage service - at least what we experience as end users - hasn't changed much over the years. Municipal governments are good at managing that type of service. I'm happy with the same water and sewage service that I had 15 years ago. Not sure I'd like the same Internet service. And I'm not so sure I'd trust my city to keep such a service up to date.

michaelt 11y ago
I'm not so sure I'd trust my city to keep such a service up to date. If the private sector is doing a great job at keeping your internet connection up to date, I'm glad for you! Unfortunately some Americans don't seem very happy with the level of service the market is providing [1] - IMHO if people are attending meetings and voting in favour of municipal broadband, it indicates the private sector isn't doing a very good job of keeping services up to date either! [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2ei1qj/after_an_internship_at_comcast/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2ei1qj/after_an_inter...
baddox 11y ago
Indeed, imagine if municipalities had needed to increase their sewage "bandwidth" per customer tenfold over the last decade.
- HarryHirsch 11y ago
  There was a fairly heady construction boom in the last decade, let me remind you of that. That said, everyone seems to have a beef with Comcast, while the complaints about the Vermont muni ISPs and the only muni ISP in North Carolina (http://www.greenlightnc.com/ http://www.greenlightnc.com/) are muted.
- kalleboo 11y ago
  Municipalities everywhere have had to deal with increased water usage and yes, sewage. I was just reading a news article from my former hometown about the original choices and changes of water sources and the build-up and upgrading of water towers as the town grew. Back in the early 1900's, water infrastructure WAS high-tech.
cowsandmilk 11y ago
Water and sewage have changed a lot over the years. Sure, you maybe can ignore it, but most cities regularly have to expand capacity and change technologies. The type of waste going down the toilet has changed tremendously during the 20th century. As a couple of examples, pharmaceuticals and tampons frequently go down the toilet now (even if people are told not to flush them). Additionally, acceptance of dumping raw sewage or overflows into waterways has hugely changed. I know many people who would roll up their windows when driving over the Potomac in DC. In Boston, the Harbor was absolutely atrocious and smelled for decades. Together, these two factors have led to large amounts of research into sewage treatment, new technologies, and upgrades nationwide. Just because you apparently are ignorant of them doesn't mean they haven't been occurring. The pace over the last 15 years has probably been slower, but if you look at the 1970's and 1980's following the passage of the Clean Water Act, upgrades of these systems were occurring on as large a scale as ISP upgrades. In fact, they probably were larger in total cost.
- bennylope 11y ago
  > Together, these two factors have led to large amounts of research into sewage treatment, new technologies, and upgrades nationwide. Just because you apparently are ignorant of them doesn't mean they haven't been occurring. While admittedly ignorant of the specific changes in water and sewage provision, I never suggested they weren't occurring - I said the experience for an end user hasn't really changed much. Even if the water quality has increased tenfold and a city's demand trebled in a decade, we're still pulling water from the tap the same way we were before, and our usage year over year doesn't change that much (on a household basis). My household needs and expectations for water service don't seem any different than 15 years ago, whereas my household needs and expectations for internet service are radically different. Governments do 'big' better than 'fast'.
kalleboo 11y ago
You don't want the municipality to provide you with Internet service. You want them to provide you with fiber service. Then they let you pick a private actor to provide you with services over that fiber (internet, voip, iptv, etc). That's how the system was where I lived in Sweden and it worked great. The fiber network was built and maintained by the local municipality-owned power company who knows a thing or two about running grids (and already had conduits running all over the place)
- bennylope 11y ago
  Well I'm sorry, but that sounds altogether far too sensible.

michaelt 11y ago

I'm not so sure I'd trust my city to keep such a service up to date. If the private sector is doing a great job at keeping your internet connection up to date, I'm glad for you! Unfortunately some Americans don't seem very happy with the level of service the market is providing [1] - IMHO if people are attending meetings and voting in favour of municipal broadband, it indicates the private sector isn't doing a very good job of keeping services up to date either! [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2ei1qj/after_an_internship_at_comcast/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2ei1qj/after_an_inter...

baddox 11y ago

Indeed, imagine if municipalities had needed to increase their sewage "bandwidth" per customer tenfold over the last decade.

HarryHirsch 11y ago
There was a fairly heady construction boom in the last decade, let me remind you of that. That said, everyone seems to have a beef with Comcast, while the complaints about the Vermont muni ISPs and the only muni ISP in North Carolina (http://www.greenlightnc.com/ http://www.greenlightnc.com/) are muted.
kalleboo 11y ago
Municipalities everywhere have had to deal with increased water usage and yes, sewage. I was just reading a news article from my former hometown about the original choices and changes of water sources and the build-up and upgrading of water towers as the town grew. Back in the early 1900's, water infrastructure WAS high-tech.

cowsandmilk 11y ago

Water and sewage have changed a lot over the years. Sure, you maybe can ignore it, but most cities regularly have to expand capacity and change technologies. The type of waste going down the toilet has changed tremendously during the 20th century. As a couple of examples, pharmaceuticals and tampons frequently go down the toilet now (even if people are told not to flush them). Additionally, acceptance of dumping raw sewage or overflows into waterways has hugely changed. I know many people who would roll up their windows when driving over the Potomac in DC. In Boston, the Harbor was absolutely atrocious and smelled for decades. Together, these two factors have led to large amounts of research into sewage treatment, new technologies, and upgrades nationwide. Just because you apparently are ignorant of them doesn't mean they haven't been occurring. The pace over the last 15 years has probably been slower, but if you look at the 1970's and 1980's following the passage of the Clean Water Act, upgrades of these systems were occurring on as large a scale as ISP upgrades. In fact, they probably were larger in total cost.

bennylope 11y ago
> Together, these two factors have led to large amounts of research into sewage treatment, new technologies, and upgrades nationwide. Just because you apparently are ignorant of them doesn't mean they haven't been occurring. While admittedly ignorant of the specific changes in water and sewage provision, I never suggested they weren't occurring - I said the experience for an end user hasn't really changed much. Even if the water quality has increased tenfold and a city's demand trebled in a decade, we're still pulling water from the tap the same way we were before, and our usage year over year doesn't change that much (on a household basis). My household needs and expectations for water service don't seem any different than 15 years ago, whereas my household needs and expectations for internet service are radically different. Governments do 'big' better than 'fast'.

kalleboo 11y ago

You don't want the municipality to provide you with Internet service. You want them to provide you with fiber service. Then they let you pick a private actor to provide you with services over that fiber (internet, voip, iptv, etc). That's how the system was where I lived in Sweden and it worked great. The fiber network was built and maintained by the local municipality-owned power company who knows a thing or two about running grids (and already had conduits running all over the place)

bennylope 11y ago
Well I'm sorry, but that sounds altogether far too sensible.