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Personally mandating a single WebView on iOS ends up being a good thing for iOS Users: a fast, responsive, quality rendering engine that has the same experience

by mythz 11y ago

Personally mandating a single WebView on iOS ends up being a good thing for iOS Users: a fast, responsive, quality rendering engine that has the same experience everywhere and gets updated with each major iOS release - dramatically reducing the permutations of rendering engine versions that needs to be tested against and supported. One of the liberating things when first developing a Web App for iOS was only having to support a single modern browser, allowing usage of advanced features which weren't crippled by having to gracefully support old IE versions. Only having to target a single platform with limited resolutions is also one of the few benefits I see with native iOS development. Apple have always put the end Users Experience before Developers, so it's primarily focused on maintaining a fast, fluid browsing experience on iOS which is the most used browser for tablets and smart phones and IMO still continues to provide the best browsing experience on any mobile device. So it doesn't follow the feature-mill factory pushed by other browser vendors, I still prefer iOS's performance focus, yearly upgrade cycle which thanks to iOS's fast upgrade adoption, iOS Web Developers get to enjoy adopting new features long before Android Web Developers who have to support the old browsers shipped on JellyBean.

pjc50 11y ago
I don't think you said "iOS" often enough in that post. (More seriously, people really want to target "the web" as a platform without having to handle the various mobile devices seperately)
- shellac 11y ago
  Fair enough, but how are you defining that web platform? W3C seems like a reasonable bet, but many of the features developers want remain fairly far from recommendation level.
agentPrefect 11y ago
Actually really agree with this. As someone who develops for Android I can't tell you much potential "mental damage control" you have to be prepared for with implementing stuff. Accommodating the different support packages, APIs, device & hardware specifications - it's a headache sometimes. But I think that's part of why I love it too, the freedom and "openness" relative to iOS eco system. That being said - Apple might be closed and all the rest, but make no mistake: they know their customer and they are willing to defend them. Even if it means pissing people off. Which is kinda nice.
fauigerzigerk 11y ago
>One of the liberating things when first developing a Web App for iOS was only having to support a single modern browser I can imagine that it is liberating just as it would be liberating to develop exclusively for any other browser. But what is the use case for that? I wasn't even aware that "iOS Web Developers" exist.
- adamlett 11y ago
  I think the point was that iOS as a platform presents far fewer challenges to web developers than Android does because of the multitude of different browsers people use on Android. PPK has written at length about the problem with all the different versions and forks of Chrome that exist on Android here: http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/02/chrome_continue.html http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/02/chrome_conti... and here: http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/02/counting_chromi.html http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/02/counting_chr...
  - fauigerzigerk 11y ago
    I get that, but if I create a web app, I have to support all kinds of different browsers anway, so how does it help to know that iOS users are only going to be using Safari? I'm not aware of any website that is exclusively used by iOS users.
    - adamlett 11y ago
      Yes, excactly. Since you have to support all the browsers, you should be thankful that there aren't more of them. On iOS you only have one browser to test against and you're done. OTOH it's practically impossible to exhaustively test on Android. Being a web developer I know which of those two platforms I wish were more like the other.
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
One of the nice things is that if a site works in Facebook or Twitter's webview, it works in Safari. It's the same engine.
o_____________o 11y ago
Happiness in slavery? It is easier to develop for a single target, as always, but in this case the single target is starved for both features and bugfixes. I'm not sure what you developed, but in the last few months alone, we've run into bugs that have apparently existed and been known about for years. There really is no excuse.
- StevenRayOrr 11y ago
  > Happiness in slavery? That's an absurd statement. Maybe your argument has merit, maybe it doesn't, but let's not suggest that our smartphones browsers are anything akin to slavery.
  - o_____________o 11y ago
    It's an idiom from "Story of O". The comment was toward being happy under forceful limitation. But gosh, sometimes discussing things on HN feels like trying to talk about poetry with Vulcans. "ILLOGICAL, DIDN'T READ THE REST"
    - aaronem 11y ago
      Speaking of talking about poetry with Vulcans, do you want to cite those bugs? I'm curious, because I've developed against Mobile Safari for years, and never actually had any particular difficulty; granted this has been mostly personal projects and little of it has entailed the use of bleeding-edge web technologies, but I'm still rather curious about this "antiquated, buggy monster" side of Safari that you seem to be seeing.
  - wutbrodo 11y ago
    It's rather obvious (even if you're unfamiliar with the source) that he/she's not comparing browser choice to literal slavery of the user. The only absurdity here is your choice to take the most outrageous possible interpretation of his comment and then write a comment entirely focusing on this imaginary transgression.
esolyt 11y ago
> quality rendering engine that has the same experience everywhere and gets updated with each major iOS release That's the problem. Google can regularly update Chrome without updating the OS. Apple can't because it's a system app. > Apple have always put the end Users Experience before Developers, so it's primarily focused on maintaining a fast, fluid browsing experience on iOS Not really. They actually started backtracking on most of those. They even allow third party keyboards now, most of which are slower and harder to use than the stock iOS keyboard. Considering keyboard is a more integral part of the OS, it seems weird they still do not allow third party browsers.
- nacs 11y ago
  > That's the problem. Google can regularly update Chrome without updating the OS If you're referring to Chrome on iOS, it uses Apple's Webkit/Webview as the rendering engine. The only thing Google is updating with app updates is the logic behind interaction with that webview, not the rendering engine itself.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    I think the reference was to Chrome on Android, which (like most of the core Google apps) is treated as a separate app and updated independently and rather more frequently than OS updates, and contrasting that with iOS Safari, which is updated as part of the OS.
- evilduck 11y ago
  Apple can push a iOS point release that just includes an update a single system app (they've did it before for the 5S's compass bug, so there's precedence even) and users will actually get to download it quickly and there's no specially carrier approval bullshit that forced Google to go with a downloadable browser app pushed through the Play Store. Being forced to use the Play Store for system functionalities has not only destroyed the "open source" nature Android once had, but also delivers bugs to users faster than ever, since they push Play Services updates damn near monthly and with far worse QA than system updates.

by mythz 11y ago

pjc50 11y ago

I don't think you said "iOS" often enough in that post. (More seriously, people really want to target "the web" as a platform without having to handle the various mobile devices seperately)

shellac 11y ago
Fair enough, but how are you defining that web platform? W3C seems like a reasonable bet, but many of the features developers want remain fairly far from recommendation level.

agentPrefect 11y ago

Actually really agree with this. As someone who develops for Android I can't tell you much potential "mental damage control" you have to be prepared for with implementing stuff. Accommodating the different support packages, APIs, device & hardware specifications - it's a headache sometimes. But I think that's part of why I love it too, the freedom and "openness" relative to iOS eco system. That being said - Apple might be closed and all the rest, but make no mistake: they know their customer and they are willing to defend them. Even if it means pissing people off. Which is kinda nice.

fauigerzigerk 11y ago

>One of the liberating things when first developing a Web App for iOS was only having to support a single modern browser I can imagine that it is liberating just as it would be liberating to develop exclusively for any other browser. But what is the use case for that? I wasn't even aware that "iOS Web Developers" exist.

adamlett 11y ago
I think the point was that iOS as a platform presents far fewer challenges to web developers than Android does because of the multitude of different browsers people use on Android. PPK has written at length about the problem with all the different versions and forks of Chrome that exist on Android here: http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/02/chrome_continue.html http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/02/chrome_conti... and here: http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/02/counting_chromi.html http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/02/counting_chr...
- fauigerzigerk 11y ago
  I get that, but if I create a web app, I have to support all kinds of different browsers anway, so how does it help to know that iOS users are only going to be using Safari? I'm not aware of any website that is exclusively used by iOS users.
  - adamlett 11y ago
    Yes, excactly. Since you have to support all the browsers, you should be thankful that there aren't more of them. On iOS you only have one browser to test against and you're done. OTOH it's practically impossible to exhaustively test on Android. Being a web developer I know which of those two platforms I wish were more like the other.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

One of the nice things is that if a site works in Facebook or Twitter's webview, it works in Safari. It's the same engine.

o_____________o 11y ago

Happiness in slavery? It is easier to develop for a single target, as always, but in this case the single target is starved for both features and bugfixes. I'm not sure what you developed, but in the last few months alone, we've run into bugs that have apparently existed and been known about for years. There really is no excuse.

StevenRayOrr 11y ago
> Happiness in slavery? That's an absurd statement. Maybe your argument has merit, maybe it doesn't, but let's not suggest that our smartphones browsers are anything akin to slavery.
- o_____________o 11y ago
  It's an idiom from "Story of O". The comment was toward being happy under forceful limitation. But gosh, sometimes discussing things on HN feels like trying to talk about poetry with Vulcans. "ILLOGICAL, DIDN'T READ THE REST"
  - aaronem 11y ago
    Speaking of talking about poetry with Vulcans, do you want to cite those bugs? I'm curious, because I've developed against Mobile Safari for years, and never actually had any particular difficulty; granted this has been mostly personal projects and little of it has entailed the use of bleeding-edge web technologies, but I'm still rather curious about this "antiquated, buggy monster" side of Safari that you seem to be seeing.
- wutbrodo 11y ago
  It's rather obvious (even if you're unfamiliar with the source) that he/she's not comparing browser choice to literal slavery of the user. The only absurdity here is your choice to take the most outrageous possible interpretation of his comment and then write a comment entirely focusing on this imaginary transgression.

esolyt 11y ago

> quality rendering engine that has the same experience everywhere and gets updated with each major iOS release That's the problem. Google can regularly update Chrome without updating the OS. Apple can't because it's a system app. > Apple have always put the end Users Experience before Developers, so it's primarily focused on maintaining a fast, fluid browsing experience on iOS Not really. They actually started backtracking on most of those. They even allow third party keyboards now, most of which are slower and harder to use than the stock iOS keyboard. Considering keyboard is a more integral part of the OS, it seems weird they still do not allow third party browsers.

nacs 11y ago
> That's the problem. Google can regularly update Chrome without updating the OS If you're referring to Chrome on iOS, it uses Apple's Webkit/Webview as the rendering engine. The only thing Google is updating with app updates is the logic behind interaction with that webview, not the rendering engine itself.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  I think the reference was to Chrome on Android, which (like most of the core Google apps) is treated as a separate app and updated independently and rather more frequently than OS updates, and contrasting that with iOS Safari, which is updated as part of the OS.
evilduck 11y ago
Apple can push a iOS point release that just includes an update a single system app (they've did it before for the 5S's compass bug, so there's precedence even) and users will actually get to download it quickly and there's no specially carrier approval bullshit that forced Google to go with a downloadable browser app pushed through the Play Store. Being forced to use the Play Store for system functionalities has not only destroyed the "open source" nature Android once had, but also delivers bugs to users faster than ever, since they push Play Services updates damn near monthly and with far worse QA than system updates.