4 ms·

>> Part of the problem is that striking is sacrosanct in France. Yea, like complaining about other country's problems is sacrosanct in the USA. Taxi drivers i

>> Part of the problem is that striking is sacrosanct in France. Yea, like complaining about other country's problems is sacrosanct in the USA. Taxi drivers in Europe have to pay exorbitant amounts of money and go thru a gauntlet to be able to make a living. Uber, imho, steals that living away in a very real way...

caskance 11y ago
No, the ones who make taxi drivers pay money and run a gauntlet are the ones stealing that living away. Uber is making that process unnecessary, and that makes the people who already paid the price feel buyer's remorse.
- jacky_chan 11y ago
  Huh?
- draven 11y ago
  That's not really buyer's remorse. They paid for their license because you need one to operate as a taxi (along with other requirements), it's the LAW. Uber drivers do not pay for any license, so they can operate at a lower cost, but it's illegal. I'm all for Uber, I used UberPOP a few times to come back home late (5am), but not late enough (so the public transportation was not yet available) and there were not enough regular taxis (or they were overpriced.) So Uber fills a need. They'd need to work with the local government but I'm pretty sure we will be the last to allow them; France is way to conservative and protective of the local guild-like organizations (like taxi drivers.) In the meantime I'll keep seeing drunk/high people driving home.
  - ousta 11y ago
    " They paid for their license because you need one to operate as a taxi (along with other requirements), it's the LAW" hence why the real crook are the people making taxi drivers pay 200K for a driving license. Uber, like Free Telecom or like Amazon is a disrupting force. and disrupting forces are always benefical at their early stages. they tend to become much less good for the people when they become leaders on markets were they have destroyed all their oponents. Amazon will soon be the first example of that.
    - draven 11y ago
      There are different aspects to consider. First, in France, even if you're not a taxi, there's a special driving license for "transport de personnes" ("people transportation" ?) which is required if you want to use a vehicle with more than 9 (IIRC) passengers, eg. bus drivers. There's also the matter of insurance. I think we can agree that establishing clear responsibilities and ensuring everyone is properly covered by an insurance in case of an accident is a good thing. Then there's the taxi license. In France (as in other countries) their number per city is limited. Therefore at the end of their career, taxi drivers sell them and recoup the cost of their acquisition. That's a sum of money they don't want to lose. Those license can get very expensive in major cities like Paris. Finally there are also some kind of regulations about the car itself (like you have to have a standardized indicator on the roof of the car, a taximeter, etc.) IMHO we need some reforms to make sure every Uber driver has at least the right insurance and perhaps has followed some kind of course to be able to transport people. As for the taxi licenses, it's kind of an artificially created scarcity. If removed, there are some costs (existing drivers will want to get a refund, then they may want to change occupation, etc.) Finally, as for the car requirements, Uber takes care of the indicator/taximeter. They also have some rules about the cars. In conclusion, Uber is not trying to disrupt a market, they're going against an existing institution with clear rules and regulations in a lot of countries.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - caskance 11y ago
        Existing drivers can want what they please. That doesn't obligate anyone to give it to them. Blockbuster and Tower Records wanted a lot of things too.
        prostoalex 11y ago
        That usually lasts until the first accident, where it's discovered that passengers are not covered by the insurance the driver had, the vehicle did not have proper maintenance, etc. which is when the general public goes for pitchforks and demands protection from such "wild west" practices.
arethuza 11y ago
"in Europe" Becoming a taxi driver here in Edinburgh appears to cost £165 - which includes a test which appears to be pretty straightforward to pass. Is that really an "exorbitant amounts of money"? [NB I appreciate that Edinburgh may be the exception - but Europe is rather large and diverse so making such a generalisation about an entire continent seems rather unwise].
- ThisIsMac 11y ago
  For example in france, its cost from 150k to 200k to buy a taxi license
  - kuschku 11y ago
    But it only costs 250€ to become a "chaffeur for hire", where people can call you and you drive them to whereever you want. Which is legally what uber is. Uber just didn’t want to pay insurance fees.
    - viscanti 11y ago
      Or is it the 0.86% success rate for getting those licenses that was the limiting factor? http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2015/07/03/uber-annonce-la-suspension-d-uberpop-en-france_4669011_3234.html http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2015/07/03/uber-annon... It appears that the licensing process is set to only accept a very small amount of the total applicants. That way politicians and taxi owners have something to point to about how it's a level playing field, and they leave things to a black box bureaucratic process to actually stifle competition.
      - kuschku 11y ago
        that’s different – that’s the taxi license. Uber does not operate as taxi, but, as they can be not directly hailed from the street, they act as chauffeur for hire.
- afsina 11y ago
  In Istanbul taxi plates cost about $300k-$500k. They are then rented and re-rented to multiple drivers. Taxi drivers and of course passengers gets the shaft
rmc 11y ago
> Taxi drivers in Europe have to pay exorbitant amounts of money and go thru a gauntlet to be able to make a living. Not the case in Ireland. Taxis were deregulated 10+ years ago.
mikehawkins 11y ago
Good point... a key problem though is self-inflicted. Taxi driver unions have a vested interest in keeping the number of licenses in operation low (so keeping rates high). That only pushes the value of each license up - and you have to spend thousands to buy someone else's license. Same thing used to happen in NYC - but with the onset of Uber, the value of licenses (which were steadily climbing) has flatlined or even dropped. It's unfortunate for the last set of drivers with these licenses, but it's a horrible way to run a much-needed service. Insurance, training - absolutely. But forcing investment in super expensive legacy licenses is very inefficient.

caskance 11y ago

No, the ones who make taxi drivers pay money and run a gauntlet are the ones stealing that living away. Uber is making that process unnecessary, and that makes the people who already paid the price feel buyer's remorse.

jacky_chan 11y ago
Huh?
draven 11y ago
That's not really buyer's remorse. They paid for their license because you need one to operate as a taxi (along with other requirements), it's the LAW. Uber drivers do not pay for any license, so they can operate at a lower cost, but it's illegal. I'm all for Uber, I used UberPOP a few times to come back home late (5am), but not late enough (so the public transportation was not yet available) and there were not enough regular taxis (or they were overpriced.) So Uber fills a need. They'd need to work with the local government but I'm pretty sure we will be the last to allow them; France is way to conservative and protective of the local guild-like organizations (like taxi drivers.) In the meantime I'll keep seeing drunk/high people driving home.
- ousta 11y ago
  " They paid for their license because you need one to operate as a taxi (along with other requirements), it's the LAW" hence why the real crook are the people making taxi drivers pay 200K for a driving license. Uber, like Free Telecom or like Amazon is a disrupting force. and disrupting forces are always benefical at their early stages. they tend to become much less good for the people when they become leaders on markets were they have destroyed all their oponents. Amazon will soon be the first example of that.
  - draven 11y ago
    There are different aspects to consider. First, in France, even if you're not a taxi, there's a special driving license for "transport de personnes" ("people transportation" ?) which is required if you want to use a vehicle with more than 9 (IIRC) passengers, eg. bus drivers. There's also the matter of insurance. I think we can agree that establishing clear responsibilities and ensuring everyone is properly covered by an insurance in case of an accident is a good thing. Then there's the taxi license. In France (as in other countries) their number per city is limited. Therefore at the end of their career, taxi drivers sell them and recoup the cost of their acquisition. That's a sum of money they don't want to lose. Those license can get very expensive in major cities like Paris. Finally there are also some kind of regulations about the car itself (like you have to have a standardized indicator on the roof of the car, a taximeter, etc.) IMHO we need some reforms to make sure every Uber driver has at least the right insurance and perhaps has followed some kind of course to be able to transport people. As for the taxi licenses, it's kind of an artificially created scarcity. If removed, there are some costs (existing drivers will want to get a refund, then they may want to change occupation, etc.) Finally, as for the car requirements, Uber takes care of the indicator/taximeter. They also have some rules about the cars. In conclusion, Uber is not trying to disrupt a market, they're going against an existing institution with clear rules and regulations in a lot of countries.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - caskance 11y ago
      Existing drivers can want what they please. That doesn't obligate anyone to give it to them. Blockbuster and Tower Records wanted a lot of things too.
      - prostoalex 11y ago
        That usually lasts until the first accident, where it's discovered that passengers are not covered by the insurance the driver had, the vehicle did not have proper maintenance, etc. which is when the general public goes for pitchforks and demands protection from such "wild west" practices.

arethuza 11y ago

"in Europe" Becoming a taxi driver here in Edinburgh appears to cost £165 - which includes a test which appears to be pretty straightforward to pass. Is that really an "exorbitant amounts of money"? [NB I appreciate that Edinburgh may be the exception - but Europe is rather large and diverse so making such a generalisation about an entire continent seems rather unwise].

ThisIsMac 11y ago
For example in france, its cost from 150k to 200k to buy a taxi license
- kuschku 11y ago
  But it only costs 250€ to become a "chaffeur for hire", where people can call you and you drive them to whereever you want. Which is legally what uber is. Uber just didn’t want to pay insurance fees.
  - viscanti 11y ago
    Or is it the 0.86% success rate for getting those licenses that was the limiting factor? http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2015/07/03/uber-annonce-la-suspension-d-uberpop-en-france_4669011_3234.html http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2015/07/03/uber-annon... It appears that the licensing process is set to only accept a very small amount of the total applicants. That way politicians and taxi owners have something to point to about how it's a level playing field, and they leave things to a black box bureaucratic process to actually stifle competition.
    - kuschku 11y ago
      that’s different – that’s the taxi license. Uber does not operate as taxi, but, as they can be not directly hailed from the street, they act as chauffeur for hire.
afsina 11y ago
In Istanbul taxi plates cost about $300k-$500k. They are then rented and re-rented to multiple drivers. Taxi drivers and of course passengers gets the shaft

rmc 11y ago

> Taxi drivers in Europe have to pay exorbitant amounts of money and go thru a gauntlet to be able to make a living. Not the case in Ireland. Taxis were deregulated 10+ years ago.

mikehawkins 11y ago

Good point... a key problem though is self-inflicted. Taxi driver unions have a vested interest in keeping the number of licenses in operation low (so keeping rates high). That only pushes the value of each license up - and you have to spend thousands to buy someone else's license. Same thing used to happen in NYC - but with the onset of Uber, the value of licenses (which were steadily climbing) has flatlined or even dropped. It's unfortunate for the last set of drivers with these licenses, but it's a horrible way to run a much-needed service. Insurance, training - absolutely. But forcing investment in super expensive legacy licenses is very inefficient.