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> luxury car service cost I was under the impression that they have less service costs due to fewer moving parts. Or maybe it comes out all the same since ther

> luxury car service cost I was under the impression that they have less service costs due to fewer moving parts. Or maybe it comes out all the same since there's less to service, but when something does need servicing it's more expensive than usual.

mikeash 11y ago
Tesla charges $600 for their annual service, or $450 if you prepay four years in advance. This is a bit high, especially considering that they do very little. However it's not mandatory, especially the first year. What's likely to be cheaper is long-term repair costs. No muffler replacements, no leaking head gaskets, no timing belts making an attempt at freedom.... But whether that actually works out remains to be seen.
- fossuser 11y ago
  They actually do an impressive amount that they don't have to (my dad is a Tesla fan/early adopter and has a Roadster, Model S and probably will get a Model X eventually). When he took the Model S in they added that metal plate to the bottom (from that one crash that got a lot of press), swapped out all the door handles for new ones because people online complained that in rain sometimes the old ones wouldn't retreat into the car and changed a few other things I'm forgetting (at no cost). I can't really think of another car company that proactively adds a bunch of stuff to the car for free as a part of routine maintenance. Of course this is in addition to all of the over the air software updates too.
  - greglindahl 11y ago
    In all fairness, most of that is warranty repairs. The initial door handles, for example, had reliability problems worse than your dad saw, which meant all of them ended up being replaced. (My car ended up having one replaced twice, because apparently the new version also has a problem, albeit more minor.) Adding backup lines to the backup display, on the other hand, to 2 year old cars, that was unusual. It was purely a software upgrade.
- schiffern 11y ago
  Tesla has a couple options with notoriously pricey long-term maintenance: air suspension and tires on the 21" wheels.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    True, but if you choose those (really unnecessary) options you should know what you're getting into.
    - alirazaq 11y ago
      Air suspension is unnecessary? Seems useful for a car that benefits from a low drag coefficient.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        The efficiency gain from lowering the suspension on the highway is pretty small, to the point that it's really tough to measure. It might be a few percent at best, so in the neighborhood of 10 extra miles on a 100% charge, if that.
- jccooper 11y ago
  All that long-term stuff is real, for sure, but mostly in the 7+ year range. I'd love to have a car where the the engine didn't start disintegrating part by part at the 10 year point, but I'm afraid with an electric I'd just have swapped alternators and water pumps for a decaying battery.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    Battery longevity and replacement cost is a huge question mark right now, for sure. The data so far looks good (degradation is below what's been predicted) but trying to look 10 years out for a car that started shipping in 2012 is tough.
- jberryman 11y ago
  > No muffler replacements, no leaking head gaskets, no timing belts making an attempt at freedom FWIW I've only ever changed the oil on my 2006 Ford Focus.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    You should have at least had transmission oil changed, fuel and air filters changed, brake pads and rotors (I count this because the brakes on an electric car driven by a normal person will last 150,000 miles or more), and probably new spark plugs by now.
  - grecy 11y ago
    How Many miles have you done? You better change at least the timing belt, transmission oil and sparks plugs if you hope it to keep running well into the future.
jhallenworld 11y ago
I've heard this said, but I don't believe it. Teslas have many of the things that normally break on cars: tires, rims, brake pads / rotors / calipers, suspension, wipers, windshield, wheel bearings, AC. Tesla does not have a transmission, so there's one thing. Also no muffler / exhaust system. Tesla does not have an IC engine, but what's likely to fail on an IC engine? A bunch of things that fail often are cheap ($100 - $200): starter battery, ignition coils. Some wear items are often more expensive because difficult to replace: timing belt, water pump, alternator. It's possible but rare that you could have something really go wrong: cracked cylinder head: maybe $2000. Now what does Tesla have? Electric motor- maybe same failure rate as an alternator? High power electronics- maybe same failure rate as something like an ignition coil? Battery- very expensive wear item.
- a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
  Consumer Reports and Edmunds are reportedly unimpressed with the reliability on their 30,000 mile tests. More problems requiring service than most cars.
- spullara 11y ago
  Brakes are used far less in a Tesla than a normal car. Regenerative breaking means they wear very slowly. Besides tires, I have yet to pay anything for servicing my Teslas — combined 36k miles on them. The electric motors have MTBFs in the 100s of thousands of miles.
- tinbad 11y ago
  As in any modern luxury car, the parts most prone to failure are the 'luxury' features like powered accessories, air suspension and electric systems. Tesla has plenty of those, if not more than a comparable competitive products like let's say a Mercedes S class or Audi A8. Even though the latter have also engines and transmissions that can fail they usually don't and it's fairly rare to have those replaced or repaired (at least in the first 5-10 years/100k miles as these cars are usually not owned for longer than that by their original owners).
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
On the one side, yes. On the other though, the battery will need to be replaced after 7-10 years of service; that's going to be a very pricey affair, and right now I think that it'll seriously affect the secondhand market in the next couple of years, and/or the Tesla's resale value. You know, like electronics which become obsolete / too expensive to repair for most people after at best five years.
- _ph_ 11y ago
  Tesla is warrantying the battery for 8 years, so the earliest you would pay for a battery replacement would be the 9th year- but they might very well last much longer.

mikeash 11y ago

Tesla charges $600 for their annual service, or $450 if you prepay four years in advance. This is a bit high, especially considering that they do very little. However it's not mandatory, especially the first year. What's likely to be cheaper is long-term repair costs. No muffler replacements, no leaking head gaskets, no timing belts making an attempt at freedom.... But whether that actually works out remains to be seen.

fossuser 11y ago
They actually do an impressive amount that they don't have to (my dad is a Tesla fan/early adopter and has a Roadster, Model S and probably will get a Model X eventually). When he took the Model S in they added that metal plate to the bottom (from that one crash that got a lot of press), swapped out all the door handles for new ones because people online complained that in rain sometimes the old ones wouldn't retreat into the car and changed a few other things I'm forgetting (at no cost). I can't really think of another car company that proactively adds a bunch of stuff to the car for free as a part of routine maintenance. Of course this is in addition to all of the over the air software updates too.
- greglindahl 11y ago
  In all fairness, most of that is warranty repairs. The initial door handles, for example, had reliability problems worse than your dad saw, which meant all of them ended up being replaced. (My car ended up having one replaced twice, because apparently the new version also has a problem, albeit more minor.) Adding backup lines to the backup display, on the other hand, to 2 year old cars, that was unusual. It was purely a software upgrade.
schiffern 11y ago
Tesla has a couple options with notoriously pricey long-term maintenance: air suspension and tires on the 21" wheels.
- mikeash 11y ago
  True, but if you choose those (really unnecessary) options you should know what you're getting into.
  - alirazaq 11y ago
    Air suspension is unnecessary? Seems useful for a car that benefits from a low drag coefficient.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      The efficiency gain from lowering the suspension on the highway is pretty small, to the point that it's really tough to measure. It might be a few percent at best, so in the neighborhood of 10 extra miles on a 100% charge, if that.
jccooper 11y ago
All that long-term stuff is real, for sure, but mostly in the 7+ year range. I'd love to have a car where the the engine didn't start disintegrating part by part at the 10 year point, but I'm afraid with an electric I'd just have swapped alternators and water pumps for a decaying battery.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Battery longevity and replacement cost is a huge question mark right now, for sure. The data so far looks good (degradation is below what's been predicted) but trying to look 10 years out for a car that started shipping in 2012 is tough.
jberryman 11y ago
> No muffler replacements, no leaking head gaskets, no timing belts making an attempt at freedom FWIW I've only ever changed the oil on my 2006 Ford Focus.
- mikeash 11y ago
  You should have at least had transmission oil changed, fuel and air filters changed, brake pads and rotors (I count this because the brakes on an electric car driven by a normal person will last 150,000 miles or more), and probably new spark plugs by now.
- grecy 11y ago
  How Many miles have you done? You better change at least the timing belt, transmission oil and sparks plugs if you hope it to keep running well into the future.

jhallenworld 11y ago

I've heard this said, but I don't believe it. Teslas have many of the things that normally break on cars: tires, rims, brake pads / rotors / calipers, suspension, wipers, windshield, wheel bearings, AC. Tesla does not have a transmission, so there's one thing. Also no muffler / exhaust system. Tesla does not have an IC engine, but what's likely to fail on an IC engine? A bunch of things that fail often are cheap ($100 - $200): starter battery, ignition coils. Some wear items are often more expensive because difficult to replace: timing belt, water pump, alternator. It's possible but rare that you could have something really go wrong: cracked cylinder head: maybe $2000. Now what does Tesla have? Electric motor- maybe same failure rate as an alternator? High power electronics- maybe same failure rate as something like an ignition coil? Battery- very expensive wear item.

a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
Consumer Reports and Edmunds are reportedly unimpressed with the reliability on their 30,000 mile tests. More problems requiring service than most cars.
spullara 11y ago
Brakes are used far less in a Tesla than a normal car. Regenerative breaking means they wear very slowly. Besides tires, I have yet to pay anything for servicing my Teslas — combined 36k miles on them. The electric motors have MTBFs in the 100s of thousands of miles.
tinbad 11y ago
As in any modern luxury car, the parts most prone to failure are the 'luxury' features like powered accessories, air suspension and electric systems. Tesla has plenty of those, if not more than a comparable competitive products like let's say a Mercedes S class or Audi A8. Even though the latter have also engines and transmissions that can fail they usually don't and it's fairly rare to have those replaced or repaired (at least in the first 5-10 years/100k miles as these cars are usually not owned for longer than that by their original owners).

Cthulhu_ 11y ago

On the one side, yes. On the other though, the battery will need to be replaced after 7-10 years of service; that's going to be a very pricey affair, and right now I think that it'll seriously affect the secondhand market in the next couple of years, and/or the Tesla's resale value. You know, like electronics which become obsolete / too expensive to repair for most people after at best five years.

_ph_ 11y ago
Tesla is warrantying the battery for 8 years, so the earliest you would pay for a battery replacement would be the 9th year- but they might very well last much longer.