4 ms·

With what we know now about beneficial bacteria, I wonder if, in addition to the pathogens, we're killing probiotics? And perhaps the lack of exposure to mild b

by clord 11y ago

With what we know now about beneficial bacteria, I wonder if, in addition to the pathogens, we're killing probiotics? And perhaps the lack of exposure to mild bacteria mean we're more susceptible to immune diseases? Of course getting rid of the pathogens is a great thing, but perhaps chlorination plays a role in causing some modern problems that are related to the immune system and the gut biome? Anyone have links to studies done on this topic?

w1ntermute 11y ago
An Epidemic of Absence: A New Way of Understanding Allergies and Autoimmune Diseases: http://www.amazon.com/Epidemic-Absence-Understanding-Allergies-Autoimmune/dp/1439199396 http://www.amazon.com/Epidemic-Absence-Understanding-Allergi... Velasquez-Manoff on Autoimmune Disease, Parasites, and Complexity: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2014/03/velasquez-manof.html http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2014/03/velasquez-manof.htm...
- glaugh 11y ago
  Does "Epidemic of Absence" actually address chlorine? I thought it was a useful and interesting book, but I don't remember it discussing chlorine in specific.
- itsybitsycoder 11y ago
  "A new way of understanding allergies"? When I was growing up, my mother and father were constantly saying that kids who didn't play in the dirt were the kids who got allergies and got sick all the time. They encouraged us to play with bugs, play in the mud, and run around the neighborhood getting into things that would cause a 'concerned neighbor' to call CPS today. My grandparents on both sides had the same philosophy, and I don't think they're alone on this... pretty sure this was once considered common sense, before the super helicopter parenting + antibacterial everything trend caught on. I get that common sense isn't science, and it's great that someone is compiling the evidence, but that title just comes off as so arrogant. Somewhere out there, there's a book called "water is wet: a new way of understanding liquids".
Xylakant 11y ago
It might be the case that chlorination of drinking water leads to an uptick in autoimmune diseases. However, many people that suffer from such a disease would not even live to suffer from it.
voidlogic 11y ago
> I wonder if, in addition to the pathogens, we're killing probiotics? A study comparing gut bacteria, immune markers etc of rural well water drinkers to city water drinkers might be a place to start. EPA: "Approximately 15 percent of Americans rely on their own private drinking water"
- dokument 11y ago
  I think using the word private is a bit misleading. Ground water is shared among all the well users in the area/water shed. If drank only collected rain water then it would be private. Except for the pollutants picked up from the air.
  - codingdave 11y ago
    It depends on the well. My well goes down 65 feet, where it hit a spring, and we have an artesian well off that spring. Every other well within a mile of me had to go down to 225 feet, and they are all certainly sharing a water supply at that level. I do not believe my well shares water with their supply because they have much safer water than I do. We have many more heavy metals in ours, and more arsenic. They run off some basic water filters, and I have a much more complex water treatment system in my basement. I'm not pointing this out just to argue - the point is that those of us on a well do maintain an awareness of where our water comes from and what is in it, probably much more so than those on public water supplies.
  - voidlogic 11y ago
    >I think using the word private is a bit misleading. For the purposes of this discussion, unless one of your neighbors is pumping chlorine into the ground I think its fine. Also private vs public here refers to the ownership of the water infrastructure.
briantakita 11y ago
Over 100 years have passed since chlorine was added to the water. This allows us to "refactor" our old solutions with better ones. There's little sense in using a dualistic lens when it comes to solutions that have a cost. i.e. "At least Chlorine saves people". No. Chlorine is a solution that has drawbacks. If there are solutions that don't have the drawbacks that Chlorine has, then lets explore those solutions.
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
Considering humanity's pro-biotic ingestion is primarily, if not exclusively, through food I kinda doubt this is a major concern. I think what's more important is how changing diets affect gut flora more so than clean water or too much soap. There's research in this area and its pretty interesting. I doubt these guys haven't considered water. Its probably just a non-issue.

by clord 11y ago

w1ntermute 11y ago

An Epidemic of Absence: A New Way of Understanding Allergies and Autoimmune Diseases: http://www.amazon.com/Epidemic-Absence-Understanding-Allergies-Autoimmune/dp/1439199396 http://www.amazon.com/Epidemic-Absence-Understanding-Allergi... Velasquez-Manoff on Autoimmune Disease, Parasites, and Complexity: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2014/03/velasquez-manof.html http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2014/03/velasquez-manof.htm...

glaugh 11y ago
Does "Epidemic of Absence" actually address chlorine? I thought it was a useful and interesting book, but I don't remember it discussing chlorine in specific.
itsybitsycoder 11y ago
"A new way of understanding allergies"? When I was growing up, my mother and father were constantly saying that kids who didn't play in the dirt were the kids who got allergies and got sick all the time. They encouraged us to play with bugs, play in the mud, and run around the neighborhood getting into things that would cause a 'concerned neighbor' to call CPS today. My grandparents on both sides had the same philosophy, and I don't think they're alone on this... pretty sure this was once considered common sense, before the super helicopter parenting + antibacterial everything trend caught on. I get that common sense isn't science, and it's great that someone is compiling the evidence, but that title just comes off as so arrogant. Somewhere out there, there's a book called "water is wet: a new way of understanding liquids".

Xylakant 11y ago

It might be the case that chlorination of drinking water leads to an uptick in autoimmune diseases. However, many people that suffer from such a disease would not even live to suffer from it.

voidlogic 11y ago

> I wonder if, in addition to the pathogens, we're killing probiotics? A study comparing gut bacteria, immune markers etc of rural well water drinkers to city water drinkers might be a place to start. EPA: "Approximately 15 percent of Americans rely on their own private drinking water"

dokument 11y ago
I think using the word private is a bit misleading. Ground water is shared among all the well users in the area/water shed. If drank only collected rain water then it would be private. Except for the pollutants picked up from the air.
- codingdave 11y ago
  It depends on the well. My well goes down 65 feet, where it hit a spring, and we have an artesian well off that spring. Every other well within a mile of me had to go down to 225 feet, and they are all certainly sharing a water supply at that level. I do not believe my well shares water with their supply because they have much safer water than I do. We have many more heavy metals in ours, and more arsenic. They run off some basic water filters, and I have a much more complex water treatment system in my basement. I'm not pointing this out just to argue - the point is that those of us on a well do maintain an awareness of where our water comes from and what is in it, probably much more so than those on public water supplies.
- voidlogic 11y ago
  >I think using the word private is a bit misleading. For the purposes of this discussion, unless one of your neighbors is pumping chlorine into the ground I think its fine. Also private vs public here refers to the ownership of the water infrastructure.

briantakita 11y ago

Over 100 years have passed since chlorine was added to the water. This allows us to "refactor" our old solutions with better ones. There's little sense in using a dualistic lens when it comes to solutions that have a cost. i.e. "At least Chlorine saves people". No. Chlorine is a solution that has drawbacks. If there are solutions that don't have the drawbacks that Chlorine has, then lets explore those solutions.

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

Considering humanity's pro-biotic ingestion is primarily, if not exclusively, through food I kinda doubt this is a major concern. I think what's more important is how changing diets affect gut flora more so than clean water or too much soap. There's research in this area and its pretty interesting. I doubt these guys haven't considered water. Its probably just a non-issue.