5 ms·

Are there any studies out there about the second order effects ? If everyone is getting BI, I'm expecting rent to go up. Like, waaaaaaay up. Up to the point wh

by toong 11y ago

Are there any studies out there about the second order effects ? If everyone is getting BI, I'm expecting rent to go up. Like, waaaaaaay up. Up to the point where no one can live from BI anymore.

orangecat 11y ago
Then the third order effect is that it becomes more profitable to supply housing, and rents come back down.
- toong 11y ago
  Right, that's what you're seeing in SF or London right now ?
fchollet 11y ago
When people don't have to pick their housing based on the location of low-wage jobs (dense cities), I would expect the rent to go down due to better utilization of the total housing supply.
- err4nt 11y ago
  I don't think that's how rent is set right now. I believe people charge rent based on what people can bear to pay - so as long as another person with BI comes along willing to pay the higher rent, the landlord will sell to him instead!
  - ItsDeathball 11y ago
    It's not the house that's valuable to a renter, though. Most of the price variation for a given floor space comes from location-driven land cost. If someone on basic income plans to live solely on their BI for a bit, maybe to work on a personal project, maybe just to play videogames, they won't be location-bound and can seek cheaper housing in the suburbs or a rural area. There is a lot of underutilized land in America that could become very attractive to developers if the pool of available consumers suddenly included a subgroup that didn't care about commute time. That's not just greenfield developments, either; it would also apply to major cities, like in the Rust Belt, where housing and land are incredibly cheap because there are no jobs available.
- toong 11y ago
  Currently, if you are on minimal-wage pay, you need to spend all your money on basic necessities. With BI, you increase the purchase power of a whole bunch of poor people. People that didn't live in the city before, now think they have a shot and can afford rent for a while and get a job in the city! Demand goes up, prices go up. If you still want to live in the city, you will need to spend all of your BI-income AND all of your pay on the VERY SAME basic necessities. Sounds pretty obvious to me and I can't really see it turn out any other way. Moving back to the country side, where it's cheap ? Ok, you can live from BI, but you still don't have a job, your kids don't get a proper education and their future looks just like yours. Barely getting by and sitting around watching tv.

by toong 11y ago

Are there any studies out there about the second order effects ? If everyone is getting BI, I'm expecting rent to go up. Like, waaaaaaay up. Up to the point where no one can live from BI anymore.

orangecat 11y ago

Then the third order effect is that it becomes more profitable to supply housing, and rents come back down.

toong 11y ago
Right, that's what you're seeing in SF or London right now ?

fchollet 11y ago

When people don't have to pick their housing based on the location of low-wage jobs (dense cities), I would expect the rent to go down due to better utilization of the total housing supply.

err4nt 11y ago
I don't think that's how rent is set right now. I believe people charge rent based on what people can bear to pay - so as long as another person with BI comes along willing to pay the higher rent, the landlord will sell to him instead!
- ItsDeathball 11y ago
  It's not the house that's valuable to a renter, though. Most of the price variation for a given floor space comes from location-driven land cost. If someone on basic income plans to live solely on their BI for a bit, maybe to work on a personal project, maybe just to play videogames, they won't be location-bound and can seek cheaper housing in the suburbs or a rural area. There is a lot of underutilized land in America that could become very attractive to developers if the pool of available consumers suddenly included a subgroup that didn't care about commute time. That's not just greenfield developments, either; it would also apply to major cities, like in the Rust Belt, where housing and land are incredibly cheap because there are no jobs available.
toong 11y ago
Currently, if you are on minimal-wage pay, you need to spend all your money on basic necessities. With BI, you increase the purchase power of a whole bunch of poor people. People that didn't live in the city before, now think they have a shot and can afford rent for a while and get a job in the city! Demand goes up, prices go up. If you still want to live in the city, you will need to spend all of your BI-income AND all of your pay on the VERY SAME basic necessities. Sounds pretty obvious to me and I can't really see it turn out any other way. Moving back to the country side, where it's cheap ? Ok, you can live from BI, but you still don't have a job, your kids don't get a proper education and their future looks just like yours. Barely getting by and sitting around watching tv.