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Craigslist is a very cool company. They are basically a communistic approach to the internet. I say all the more power to them. If someone can do better tha

Craigslist is a very cool company. They are basically a communistic approach to the internet. I say all the more power to them. If someone can do better than free, go right ahead.

Alex3917 11y ago
I don't know the specific facts of this case, but the communistic element has been at the center of some similar cases. Anyone is/was allowed to use Craigslist data to make apps as long as they aren't doing it for profit. And every year people agree to these terms, but later get their access yanked when they decide to start running display ads or whatever.
onedev 11y ago
Someone CAN do it better AND for free. Check out Nextdoor.com. I've been using it for a while and it's better in literally every single way. It's now just a matter of time while they scale.
- kimmel 11y ago
  Just tried out nextdoor.com. It tried to load 6 different tracking and marketing scripts that my browser addons blocked. Craigslist has 0. I will not be using nextdoor.
  - dogweather 11y ago
    Yep. Nextdoor often barely works for me, with the browser trying to load some asset or other.
  - onedev 11y ago
    It's nothing compared to what Google, Facebook, AirBnB, Uber and literally every other website you visit or email you open does. Craigslist may not track your actions, but it doesn't ever update it's UI/UX or add features so there's no reason for Craigslist to collect user behavior data. Now I completely respect your personal choice, but for others who are more willing to try out something that can provide them real value, I think Nextdoor will win over Craigslist every time.
geofft 11y ago
Have you used Padmapper? It was better than free. It was much nicer than Craigslist for the same queries, but -- because of Craigslist's size and entrenched position -- the data largely remained on Craigslist, despite Padmapper also having a free posting interface. That might be fair business, but it certainly wasn't a fair comparison of their products or philosophies. Your analogy of communism may be entirely too apt, given how communism played out in practice last century. Sure, you got the overthrow of the capitalist economy, but if you were a tiny country who didn't really want to agree with Moscow on everything, sucks to be you.
- MichaelCrawford 11y ago
  The Molotov Cocktail was invented by the Finnish in honor of the Soviet minister who initiated the USSR's invasion of their "tiny country".
- whyenot 11y ago
  I used PadMapper. It was fantastic, the user interface was so much better than CL. ...but its scraping of CL postings was risky and morally wrong. The "fuck the rules" approach has worked for Uber and AirBNB, but it's not going to work everywhere.
  - gohrt 11y ago
    Note that AirBnB's initial growth was largely built on Craigslist spam (spamming Craigslist's users, in direct violation of the site TOS). https://www.google.com/?#q=airbnb+craigslist+spam https://www.google.com/?#q=airbnb+craigslist+spam
  - MichaelGG 11y ago
    Why is it morally wrong? It may be a risky technical decision, but how can it be morally wrong? Would it have been better if the data was processed via a client-side browser plugin? And Uber's "fuck the rules" are on a totally different level than sending HTTP requests to a server to aggregate publicly accessible information.
    - 11y ago
methehack 11y ago
Communist as in it's all mine? It seems like the means of production here is the data they 'publish' and they've been very clear who the owners of that are -- craigslist and no one else. Their aggressively litigious nature makes it difficult for others to compete and provide better services. It's difficult to penetrate the network effect juggernaut if you can't scrape their existing ads.
- beedogs 11y ago
  "Aggressively litigious nature"? Really? Because this is the first lawsuit I'm aware of involving CL, and they were clearly in the right here. So ... what's your beef?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - beedogs 11y ago
    Can't articulate your issues with CL, but can click the downvote button. Pretty much sums up HN these days.
- makomk 11y ago
  For a while they even changed their terms of service to give themselves an exclusive license to anything you posted on the site in order to help them sue websites that let you search it without their permission - so in theory they could've sued their own users for posting the same ads on Craigslist and elsewhere. That's fucking insane.
em3rgent0rdr 11y ago
"All you posts are belong to CRAIGSLIST" is not very communistic. Craigslist is just a private business using government IP law to prevent potential competitors from eating their significant market share. > "If someone can do better than free, go right ahead." It's hard to compete with an entity that uses the coercive power of the state to squash you.

Craigslist is a very cool company. They are basically a communistic approach to the internet. I say all the more power to them. If someone can do better than free, go right ahead.

Alex3917 11y ago

I don't know the specific facts of this case, but the communistic element has been at the center of some similar cases. Anyone is/was allowed to use Craigslist data to make apps as long as they aren't doing it for profit. And every year people agree to these terms, but later get their access yanked when they decide to start running display ads or whatever.

onedev 11y ago

Someone CAN do it better AND for free. Check out Nextdoor.com. I've been using it for a while and it's better in literally every single way. It's now just a matter of time while they scale.

kimmel 11y ago
Just tried out nextdoor.com. It tried to load 6 different tracking and marketing scripts that my browser addons blocked. Craigslist has 0. I will not be using nextdoor.
- dogweather 11y ago
  Yep. Nextdoor often barely works for me, with the browser trying to load some asset or other.
- onedev 11y ago
  It's nothing compared to what Google, Facebook, AirBnB, Uber and literally every other website you visit or email you open does. Craigslist may not track your actions, but it doesn't ever update it's UI/UX or add features so there's no reason for Craigslist to collect user behavior data. Now I completely respect your personal choice, but for others who are more willing to try out something that can provide them real value, I think Nextdoor will win over Craigslist every time.

geofft 11y ago

Have you used Padmapper? It was better than free. It was much nicer than Craigslist for the same queries, but -- because of Craigslist's size and entrenched position -- the data largely remained on Craigslist, despite Padmapper also having a free posting interface. That might be fair business, but it certainly wasn't a fair comparison of their products or philosophies. Your analogy of communism may be entirely too apt, given how communism played out in practice last century. Sure, you got the overthrow of the capitalist economy, but if you were a tiny country who didn't really want to agree with Moscow on everything, sucks to be you.

MichaelCrawford 11y ago
The Molotov Cocktail was invented by the Finnish in honor of the Soviet minister who initiated the USSR's invasion of their "tiny country".
whyenot 11y ago
I used PadMapper. It was fantastic, the user interface was so much better than CL. ...but its scraping of CL postings was risky and morally wrong. The "fuck the rules" approach has worked for Uber and AirBNB, but it's not going to work everywhere.
- gohrt 11y ago
  Note that AirBnB's initial growth was largely built on Craigslist spam (spamming Craigslist's users, in direct violation of the site TOS). https://www.google.com/?#q=airbnb+craigslist+spam https://www.google.com/?#q=airbnb+craigslist+spam
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  Why is it morally wrong? It may be a risky technical decision, but how can it be morally wrong? Would it have been better if the data was processed via a client-side browser plugin? And Uber's "fuck the rules" are on a totally different level than sending HTTP requests to a server to aggregate publicly accessible information.
  - 11y ago

methehack 11y ago

Communist as in it's all mine? It seems like the means of production here is the data they 'publish' and they've been very clear who the owners of that are -- craigslist and no one else. Their aggressively litigious nature makes it difficult for others to compete and provide better services. It's difficult to penetrate the network effect juggernaut if you can't scrape their existing ads.

beedogs 11y ago
"Aggressively litigious nature"? Really? Because this is the first lawsuit I'm aware of involving CL, and they were clearly in the right here. So ... what's your beef?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- beedogs 11y ago
  Can't articulate your issues with CL, but can click the downvote button. Pretty much sums up HN these days.
makomk 11y ago
For a while they even changed their terms of service to give themselves an exclusive license to anything you posted on the site in order to help them sue websites that let you search it without their permission - so in theory they could've sued their own users for posting the same ads on Craigslist and elsewhere. That's fucking insane.

em3rgent0rdr 11y ago

"All you posts are belong to CRAIGSLIST" is not very communistic. Craigslist is just a private business using government IP law to prevent potential competitors from eating their significant market share. > "If someone can do better than free, go right ahead." It's hard to compete with an entity that uses the coercive power of the state to squash you.