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Today Google is the only entity with the legal right to do what they do with the books. If I were to try it, I'd be sued into oblivion by the publishers. For

by apowell 17y ago

Today Google is the only entity with the legal right to do what they do with the books. If I were to try it, I'd be sued into oblivion by the publishers. For Google, forgiveness was easier than permission. For anyone else, forgiveness won't be an option. The settlement and ruling applies to Google and only Google. Perhaps in the future some organization will slog through the legal system and change that situation. If that happens, it won't be a monopoly anymore. But today it is. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/the-fight-over-the-worlds-greatest-library-the-wiredcom-faq/ http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/the-fight-over-the-wo... (Questions #17 - #21 make the point much better than I am able)

ErrantX 17y ago
> If that happens, it won't be a monopoly anymore. I think the problem is the definition of monopoly. It's arguably a very good thing (tm) [for consumers] that Google have done - if the fact they had to fight the legal system in a way that is beyond the means of most companies makes it a monopoly then that, to me, seems a bit screwy logic. What about the argument they have now paved the way for much simpler lawsuits - or even opened the way for people to convince publishers to license content without needing the courts.... Till someone else bothers to try (note: bothers) this is impossible to judge either way. Also lets be careful here: monopolies aren't necessarily (in a legal sense) "bad". Unfair monopolies are what we have to avoid - and evil ones. This was evidence for Google being an evil corporation; to my eyes it seems hard enough to argue this is really a monopoly let alone one with "evil" intent :) (ultimately the argument does seem to come down to: Congress needs to fix a silly situation)
- apowell 17y ago
  I think we're viewing the same situation through slightly different lenses, but mostly in agreement. You're right - this is a silly situation, and Congress ought to fix it. I was about to make the same point about monopolies, fairness, and evil. I agree that this particular example isn't strong support for the "Google is evil" thesis.
- lmkg 17y ago
  Specifics of the particular case aside, I do not like that Google has the weight to simply buck the system if it disagrees with it. It sets a terrible precedent. The legislative process for changing the laws is flawed, but there are good reasons it exists: for example, multiple voices and interests can express their concerns. I think it's a rationally defensible position that, in the books case, Google is substituting an democratic process for an enlightened dictatorship. If nothing else, that's a problem because it's a single point of failure. Obviously, that way of phrasing my viewpoint is rather severe and totally loaded, but I think it's also a concise summary of both my opinions and my feelings on the topic.
  - pohl 17y ago
    Given that the judiciary and the legislative branch have equal footing in the founding documents, how is democracy being side-stepped?
    - lmkg 17y ago
      The judiciary branch had to intervene to prevent Google from sidestepping the law, which they were attempting to do. If Google had gone to the courts to try to upend copyright law, that would be using a democratic process. That's not what Google did; they ignored the law, and the judiciary branch was invoked by someone else to step in and stop them.
      - pohl 17y ago
        In the end, it is the court's opinion on the legality of their actions that matters, not how the case came before it.
jhancock 17y ago
Was a judgement/ruling issued in this case? If so, it makes it relatively easy for another to replicate the situation. Its one thing our legal system is actually quite good at.

by apowell 17y ago

ErrantX 17y ago

> If that happens, it won't be a monopoly anymore. I think the problem is the definition of monopoly. It's arguably a very good thing (tm) [for consumers] that Google have done - if the fact they had to fight the legal system in a way that is beyond the means of most companies makes it a monopoly then that, to me, seems a bit screwy logic. What about the argument they have now paved the way for much simpler lawsuits - or even opened the way for people to convince publishers to license content without needing the courts.... Till someone else bothers to try (note: bothers) this is impossible to judge either way. Also lets be careful here: monopolies aren't necessarily (in a legal sense) "bad". Unfair monopolies are what we have to avoid - and evil ones. This was evidence for Google being an evil corporation; to my eyes it seems hard enough to argue this is really a monopoly let alone one with "evil" intent :) (ultimately the argument does seem to come down to: Congress needs to fix a silly situation)

apowell 17y ago
I think we're viewing the same situation through slightly different lenses, but mostly in agreement. You're right - this is a silly situation, and Congress ought to fix it. I was about to make the same point about monopolies, fairness, and evil. I agree that this particular example isn't strong support for the "Google is evil" thesis.
lmkg 17y ago
Specifics of the particular case aside, I do not like that Google has the weight to simply buck the system if it disagrees with it. It sets a terrible precedent. The legislative process for changing the laws is flawed, but there are good reasons it exists: for example, multiple voices and interests can express their concerns. I think it's a rationally defensible position that, in the books case, Google is substituting an democratic process for an enlightened dictatorship. If nothing else, that's a problem because it's a single point of failure. Obviously, that way of phrasing my viewpoint is rather severe and totally loaded, but I think it's also a concise summary of both my opinions and my feelings on the topic.
- pohl 17y ago
  Given that the judiciary and the legislative branch have equal footing in the founding documents, how is democracy being side-stepped?
  - lmkg 17y ago
    The judiciary branch had to intervene to prevent Google from sidestepping the law, which they were attempting to do. If Google had gone to the courts to try to upend copyright law, that would be using a democratic process. That's not what Google did; they ignored the law, and the judiciary branch was invoked by someone else to step in and stop them.
    - pohl 17y ago
      In the end, it is the court's opinion on the legality of their actions that matters, not how the case came before it.

jhancock 17y ago

Was a judgement/ruling issued in this case? If so, it makes it relatively easy for another to replicate the situation. Its one thing our legal system is actually quite good at.