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A couple of issues with your position: > Look at this issue. He mis-presses send on a github comment and immediately you have 10 comments without even waiting

A couple of issues with your position: > Look at this issue. He mis-presses send on a github comment and immediately you have 10 comments without even waiting for an explanation, calling the guy "absurd and stupid". Why should people have to assume that he "mispressed" send? Isn't it more likely people would take his comment at face value and respond accordingly? If there is a problem with something he's said, that's on him for not being more concise and clear about his point. > He's not the only one getting treated like that by the community. One day, one of those devs will kill themself, and people will rush him to talk further about them like they know them. Exactly like what happened to Aaron. This is so overly dramatic and completely unrepresentative of what happened with Aaron Swartz. The fact you threw his name in is borderline offensive, seeing how with Aaron Swartz he was a victim of perverted justice, not abusive comments on Github. You're just trying to garner sympathy based on his name alone, shame on you. I'm all for being reasonable and giving people the benefit of the doubt but your comment comes off as so fanboyish no wonder you're getting downvoted.

scrollaway 11y ago
I disagree with Lennart and am disgusted at the community for how they're treating other people. Human beings. That is some serious leap to fanboyism... And I didn't imply anything regarding why Aaron killed himself but how the community reacted after he did. You should re-read the comment. > Why should people have to assume that he "mispressed" send? I dunno, maybe because it was clearly incomplete and ended in the middle of a word?
- carlisle_ 11y ago
  >And I didn't imply anything regarding why Aaron killed himself but how the community reacted after he did. You should re-read the comment. YOU should reread your comment because the way you're phrasing it sounds /exactly/ like you're implying devs are going to start killing themselves because of abusive comments. And honestly, even if we read your comment as how you're saying you intended it to sound, what's your point? People die and others might exaggerate their relation to the deceased? That happens with everyone, not just Aaron Swartz, or even celebrities as a whole. Your use of his name is without any relevance. Your comment isn't "defending a human being". You're just pandering.
  - scrollaway 11y ago
    > sounds /exactly/ like you're implying devs are going to start killing themselves because of abusive comments And I maintain that. You seem to be missing my point. > You're just pandering Or maybe I'm just feeding a damn troll at this point. I'll stop.
    - carlisle_ 11y ago
      Sorry, I wasn't clear, when I said that I meant to say you were implying that Aaron Swartz's situation was the same as that based on how you tied him into that point. So people who disagree with you are just trolls? That's a pretty good attitude.
      - scrollaway 11y ago
        > So people who disagree with you are just trolls? That's a pretty good attitude. I shouldn't have said that, you're right, sorry.
vidarh 11y ago
> Isn't it more likely people would take his comment at face value and respond accordingly? Fine. Then the appropriate response is to step back, think to make sure one understands what is written, then ask him to clarify and verify that one actually understands his full opinion first if it seems to be absurd and stupid, before (or preferably instead of) calling him names. In my experience, and I've no doubt done this myself too, developers are extremely quick to go for the heavy handed criticism and/or make it personal without first taking the time to ensure that we 1) understand the other side fully, 2) can be certain that the other side are digging their heels in for no valid reason and can't be reasoned with. In other words: Far too often people don't try to resolve the issue before resorting to insults or behaviour that only serve to reduce the chance that an agreement can be reached. I understand that it's frustrating to do that if you think you know how someone will respond, but the insults won't make anything better, and often makes things worse. And very, very often people end up responding based on assumptions about the other person and the requirements and constraints the other person is working under that are flat out wrong. If you think people have made "absurd and stupid" claims, we should give them the chance to conclusively demonstrate that first before assuming so. And even then, there's rarely any reason for insults. Frankly, a lot of the stuff that appears to be seen as perfectly acceptable and professional behaviour in tech circles would be written warning and HR supervision territory elsewhere (yes, I do recognise that a lot of people posting comments on these things are not involved in a professional setting, I still find a lot of this behaviour quite shocking)
- carlisle_ 11y ago
  I agree with you completely, people should be measured with how they respond to things they perceive negatively. Anything ad hominen has no relevance to the discussion. Being called "absurd" and/or "stupid" to me (or my ideas) isn't a big deal to me. In responding I had not considered the point that for some that isn't an acceptable thing to say, which is totally fair.

scrollaway 11y ago

I disagree with Lennart and am disgusted at the community for how they're treating other people. Human beings. That is some serious leap to fanboyism... And I didn't imply anything regarding why Aaron killed himself but how the community reacted after he did. You should re-read the comment. > Why should people have to assume that he "mispressed" send? I dunno, maybe because it was clearly incomplete and ended in the middle of a word?

carlisle_ 11y ago
>And I didn't imply anything regarding why Aaron killed himself but how the community reacted after he did. You should re-read the comment. YOU should reread your comment because the way you're phrasing it sounds /exactly/ like you're implying devs are going to start killing themselves because of abusive comments. And honestly, even if we read your comment as how you're saying you intended it to sound, what's your point? People die and others might exaggerate their relation to the deceased? That happens with everyone, not just Aaron Swartz, or even celebrities as a whole. Your use of his name is without any relevance. Your comment isn't "defending a human being". You're just pandering.
- scrollaway 11y ago
  > sounds /exactly/ like you're implying devs are going to start killing themselves because of abusive comments And I maintain that. You seem to be missing my point. > You're just pandering Or maybe I'm just feeding a damn troll at this point. I'll stop.
  - carlisle_ 11y ago
    Sorry, I wasn't clear, when I said that I meant to say you were implying that Aaron Swartz's situation was the same as that based on how you tied him into that point. So people who disagree with you are just trolls? That's a pretty good attitude.
    - scrollaway 11y ago
      > So people who disagree with you are just trolls? That's a pretty good attitude. I shouldn't have said that, you're right, sorry.

vidarh 11y ago

> Isn't it more likely people would take his comment at face value and respond accordingly? Fine. Then the appropriate response is to step back, think to make sure one understands what is written, then ask him to clarify and verify that one actually understands his full opinion first if it seems to be absurd and stupid, before (or preferably instead of) calling him names. In my experience, and I've no doubt done this myself too, developers are extremely quick to go for the heavy handed criticism and/or make it personal without first taking the time to ensure that we 1) understand the other side fully, 2) can be certain that the other side are digging their heels in for no valid reason and can't be reasoned with. In other words: Far too often people don't try to resolve the issue before resorting to insults or behaviour that only serve to reduce the chance that an agreement can be reached. I understand that it's frustrating to do that if you think you know how someone will respond, but the insults won't make anything better, and often makes things worse. And very, very often people end up responding based on assumptions about the other person and the requirements and constraints the other person is working under that are flat out wrong. If you think people have made "absurd and stupid" claims, we should give them the chance to conclusively demonstrate that first before assuming so. And even then, there's rarely any reason for insults. Frankly, a lot of the stuff that appears to be seen as perfectly acceptable and professional behaviour in tech circles would be written warning and HR supervision territory elsewhere (yes, I do recognise that a lot of people posting comments on these things are not involved in a professional setting, I still find a lot of this behaviour quite shocking)

carlisle_ 11y ago
I agree with you completely, people should be measured with how they respond to things they perceive negatively. Anything ad hominen has no relevance to the discussion. Being called "absurd" and/or "stupid" to me (or my ideas) isn't a big deal to me. In responding I had not considered the point that for some that isn't an acceptable thing to say, which is totally fair.