5 ms·

"...but the offer from the other company pays more than any engineer in your company and the engineer in question is not your best engineer. Still, she is worki

"...but the offer from the other company pays more than any engineer in your company and the engineer in question is not your best engineer. Still, she is working on a critical project and you cannot afford to lose her. So you match the offer." Jesus that all sounds so ridiculous to me. That's a funny shell game around admitting that someone was more valuable than you were paying them, and then guess what - lots of other people are. If the argument is "But she isn't always this valuable.. she's just this valuable on this project" then attach a financial incentive to the project. Sadly, I don't get the sense that Ben is suggesting that there's a problem with not compensating commensurate with value here or with depending on the employer-preferential taboo of the secret salary. He seems to just argue you should let this engineer walk and the project die.

Retra 11y ago
If I were the engineer, I would also walk and let the project die. Because when that project is over, you're going to be the "highest paid but not best person on the team" and there's no reason they shouldn't be looking to release you for that anyway.
- EGreg 11y ago
  If you threaten to leave to another company and that's how you get a raise, the relationship's been poisoned and it's just a matter of time until you leave. This is just another reason why I love project based consulting more than FTE. The incentives are properly aligned. Adam Smith would smile.
  - recursive 11y ago
    Nope. I took a generous counter-offer over a year ago. I've only increased in critical responsibilities since then.
    - saiya-jin 11y ago
      This can be a double edge sword. you enjoy your new responsibilities? good for you. not everybody wants to get more and more on their shoulders until the point of realizing that there ins't much time for that little thing called life. Also, most people who get promoted/raised around me end up working much more compared to raise they've been given. Personal experience - in every single work I've done (roughly 10 customers/employers, perm+consultant) in 3 different countries, there was/is always room to grab more responsibility, more tasks etc. State of IT usually just a variation of a term MESS, with some technical debt here and there, everywhere. You work harder, solve more, take more responsibility and your career progresses along (or you go to place where it does faster). But with this might also come 9-10 hours at work instead of 8 (plus lunch), company phone which is there just to remind you of the work when you're not in, maybe more weekends screwed up and so on. Even in otherwise very work/life balance oriented employers. Want another advice? When having a formal talk with your boss, tell him you want a raise, but you don't want it for free, rather bringing added value. Define clear terms what is expected from you to get there, fulfill them and watch the magic happen :)
      - recursive 11y ago
        Yes, I got the extra responsibilities I asked for. I don't have a company phone. Everything is actually good.
mistermann 11y ago
> If the argument is "But she isn't always this valuable.. she's just this valuable on this project" then attach a financial incentive to the project. This is actually a fantastic idea, for both sides.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  For the employer, sure. But it'd have to be pretty high, as in much higher than the raise for me to consider the possibility of that over just getting a raise.
  - saiya-jin 11y ago
    raise is a permanent bonus, on top of other bonuses actually called... bonus
sliverstorm 11y ago
The damage you can cause is not necessarily the same as the value you contribute. When you're negotiating on threat of tanking a project, it seems to me like you've turned it into a hostage negotiation- a different beast. (Just imagine a project worth $X with two lynchpins, both of whose absence would tank the project. Both can cause $X in damage, but you obviously cannot pay each $X)
- daemin 11y ago
  Ultimately if a (large) project is in danger because one or two key engineering people quit, then it's the fault of the managers involved for not mitigating that risk. Either by increasing their title or pay as they are that critical, or by not distributing the key knowledge around so that everyone is dispensable.
  - saiya-jin 11y ago
    stick around for long enough, and you'll probably become critical. sad true is, most of these people don't have salaries as high as those jumping around frequently. but as long as they're OK with work, not much to complain about

Retra 11y ago

If I were the engineer, I would also walk and let the project die. Because when that project is over, you're going to be the "highest paid but not best person on the team" and there's no reason they shouldn't be looking to release you for that anyway.

EGreg 11y ago
If you threaten to leave to another company and that's how you get a raise, the relationship's been poisoned and it's just a matter of time until you leave. This is just another reason why I love project based consulting more than FTE. The incentives are properly aligned. Adam Smith would smile.
- recursive 11y ago
  Nope. I took a generous counter-offer over a year ago. I've only increased in critical responsibilities since then.
  - saiya-jin 11y ago
    This can be a double edge sword. you enjoy your new responsibilities? good for you. not everybody wants to get more and more on their shoulders until the point of realizing that there ins't much time for that little thing called life. Also, most people who get promoted/raised around me end up working much more compared to raise they've been given. Personal experience - in every single work I've done (roughly 10 customers/employers, perm+consultant) in 3 different countries, there was/is always room to grab more responsibility, more tasks etc. State of IT usually just a variation of a term MESS, with some technical debt here and there, everywhere. You work harder, solve more, take more responsibility and your career progresses along (or you go to place where it does faster). But with this might also come 9-10 hours at work instead of 8 (plus lunch), company phone which is there just to remind you of the work when you're not in, maybe more weekends screwed up and so on. Even in otherwise very work/life balance oriented employers. Want another advice? When having a formal talk with your boss, tell him you want a raise, but you don't want it for free, rather bringing added value. Define clear terms what is expected from you to get there, fulfill them and watch the magic happen :)
    - recursive 11y ago
      Yes, I got the extra responsibilities I asked for. I don't have a company phone. Everything is actually good.

mistermann 11y ago

> If the argument is "But she isn't always this valuable.. she's just this valuable on this project" then attach a financial incentive to the project. This is actually a fantastic idea, for both sides.

s73v3r 11y ago
For the employer, sure. But it'd have to be pretty high, as in much higher than the raise for me to consider the possibility of that over just getting a raise.
- saiya-jin 11y ago
  raise is a permanent bonus, on top of other bonuses actually called... bonus

sliverstorm 11y ago

The damage you can cause is not necessarily the same as the value you contribute. When you're negotiating on threat of tanking a project, it seems to me like you've turned it into a hostage negotiation- a different beast. (Just imagine a project worth $X with two lynchpins, both of whose absence would tank the project. Both can cause $X in damage, but you obviously cannot pay each $X)

daemin 11y ago
Ultimately if a (large) project is in danger because one or two key engineering people quit, then it's the fault of the managers involved for not mitigating that risk. Either by increasing their title or pay as they are that critical, or by not distributing the key knowledge around so that everyone is dispensable.
- saiya-jin 11y ago
  stick around for long enough, and you'll probably become critical. sad true is, most of these people don't have salaries as high as those jumping around frequently. but as long as they're OK with work, not much to complain about