4 ms·

At a significant company (Apple, Google, Microsoft) very soon after getting hired, you'll have stock options and/or RSUs worth millions of dollars vesting vesti

by seiji 11y ago

At a significant company (Apple, Google, Microsoft) very soon after getting hired, you'll have stock options and/or RSUs worth millions of dollars vesting vesting on a rotating schedule. "Leaving" can be painful unless the next company wants to make you whole against the millions of dollars in stock you'd vest over the next 6 years by staying. It's often not talked about directly, but established tech companies (not "acqui-hire startup flavor of the month") routinely create hundreds of new millionaires every year. It's one of those weird worst best kept secrets. People don't like to talk about their net worth when it comes from steady work. People tend to only brag when it comes to media popularized lottery/startup windfalls. Imagine even starting at Apple ten years ago before their stock went all rocket ship. Just by taking your standard options blocks and not getting fired, you'd be extremely well off today without overly exerting yourself (if not overly exerting yourself is even possible at Apple).

mabbo 11y ago
One should never consider RSUs as a form of wealth- you don't have any of that money, and you can't control it, so therefore you don't have it. RSUs, when vesting on a regular schedule, are a form of salary. When I consider how much I "make" per year, in order to compare to other offers/companies, I add my yearly wage with the RSUs that will vest in the next year at current market prices. The sum is my real wage. Could the stock suddenly go up, meaning my RSUs are worth so much more? Yes. It could also go down. But short of my having/using better information than the market has, the going rate of the stock price is probably a good measure of what the stock will be worth in the near future.
what_ever 11y ago
What level are we talking about? RSUs worth millions is a lot higher than what I have heard from people working at Apple/Google/Facebook.
- seiji 11y ago
  Well, over time. Not one bulk grant (at least for "unimportant" employees), but every year you get an additional grant with a new vesting schedule. Over time it adds up. Of course, it's always better to have been hired 10 years ago when you could get more stock at lower strike prices anyway.
  - rev_bird 11y ago
    I work for a well-known tech company that includes RSUs as a pretty big chunk of compensation. I have absolutely no perspective on the level of the additional grants that come attached to the annual reviews, but I was under the impression it was maybe a $5–8k cost-of-living kind of deal. Now I'm very intrigued...
    - seiji 11y ago
      I guess it also helps to become irreplaceable and/or indispensable at something. There are employees at Google with hundred million dollar stock packages, but those obviously aren't bottom-of-the-org-chart drones. You can either work hard for a lifetime single-company career and get there in 10-30 years, or you can try to hack your way upwards with startups and get acquired by the same company. (or, the even more daring option—create something of value as a startup and get your own team to help grow it.)
      - rev_bird 11y ago
        I think it would be fun to be the type of person who throws startup-centric, hail-mary passes with my career, but now that I've actually gotten myself onto a track that I love, I've very quickly turned into the quarterback calling the end-around and screen-pass every play. I might win less, but I'm less likely to screw something up too badly.
    - gabbo 11y ago
      It really depends. The numbers aren't huge life-changing at the beginning, but they add up over time and if you're really strong^H^H^H^H^Hlucky^H^H^H^H^Hshrewd and get promoted quickly, the numbers can get pretty large. The numbers below are hypotheticals but not too far off from people I know doing the BigTechCo circuit. Some do better, some do worse. As a new grad you might see $5-10k in extra annual compensation coming from vesting RSUs (i.e. in addition to your salary and cash bonus). But RSU grants start to stack. Say your grants start vesting after 1 year at 25% per year. Year by year you might see: Year 1: $40k/4 = $10k vest, new $10k grant (also vesting over 4 years) Year 2: $40k/4 + $10k/4 = $12.5k vest, new $15k grant Year 3: $40k/4 + $10k/4 + $15k/4 = $16.25k vest, new $25k grant Year 4: $40k/4 + $10k/4 + $15k/4 + $25k/4 = $22.5k vest, new $35k grant Year 5: $10k/4 + $15k/4 + $25k/4 + $35k/4 = $21k vest, new $40k grant At year 5 you've seen $82.25k worth of stock vest (assuming a flat share price). Which leaves you with $82.75k left to vest. Now you're tired of working at BigTechCo #1 and get an offer from their competitor, BigTechCo #2. You know how this works, so you tell them you've got $83k in RSUs. To make it worth your while, they offer you $160k of their own RSUs vesting on a similar schedule. You're an experienced, senior hire at this point so your RSU grants are larger, but maybe because you're a new hire who doesn't know the ropes your first couple of years at BigTechCo #2 show respectable but not explosive growth: Year 6: $160k/4 = $40k vest, new $30k grant Year 7: $160k/4 + $30k/4 = $47.5k vest, new $50k grant Then you interview again and move to BigTechCo #3. Or back to BigTechCo #1. Or you tell BigTechCo #2 you're out and they give you a retention offer. Or you get a big promotion. Either way, the RSU grants add up. All the while you've been pulling in a respectable base salary, raises, and cash bonuses. And maybe, if you're lucky, your company's stock price has gone up too. Or you realize your gross income of $200-300k in the Bay Area earns you the ability to buy property, which means you pick 2-3 of the following outcomes: [1] small and/or shitty house [2] 2-3 hour daily commute [3] overextended and house poor. So you move to the midwest and buy a palace.

by seiji 11y ago

mabbo 11y ago

One should never consider RSUs as a form of wealth- you don't have any of that money, and you can't control it, so therefore you don't have it. RSUs, when vesting on a regular schedule, are a form of salary. When I consider how much I "make" per year, in order to compare to other offers/companies, I add my yearly wage with the RSUs that will vest in the next year at current market prices. The sum is my real wage. Could the stock suddenly go up, meaning my RSUs are worth so much more? Yes. It could also go down. But short of my having/using better information than the market has, the going rate of the stock price is probably a good measure of what the stock will be worth in the near future.

what_ever 11y ago

What level are we talking about? RSUs worth millions is a lot higher than what I have heard from people working at Apple/Google/Facebook.

seiji 11y ago
Well, over time. Not one bulk grant (at least for "unimportant" employees), but every year you get an additional grant with a new vesting schedule. Over time it adds up. Of course, it's always better to have been hired 10 years ago when you could get more stock at lower strike prices anyway.
- rev_bird 11y ago
  I work for a well-known tech company that includes RSUs as a pretty big chunk of compensation. I have absolutely no perspective on the level of the additional grants that come attached to the annual reviews, but I was under the impression it was maybe a $5–8k cost-of-living kind of deal. Now I'm very intrigued...
  - seiji 11y ago
    I guess it also helps to become irreplaceable and/or indispensable at something. There are employees at Google with hundred million dollar stock packages, but those obviously aren't bottom-of-the-org-chart drones. You can either work hard for a lifetime single-company career and get there in 10-30 years, or you can try to hack your way upwards with startups and get acquired by the same company. (or, the even more daring option—create something of value as a startup and get your own team to help grow it.)
    - rev_bird 11y ago
      I think it would be fun to be the type of person who throws startup-centric, hail-mary passes with my career, but now that I've actually gotten myself onto a track that I love, I've very quickly turned into the quarterback calling the end-around and screen-pass every play. I might win less, but I'm less likely to screw something up too badly.
  - gabbo 11y ago
    It really depends. The numbers aren't huge life-changing at the beginning, but they add up over time and if you're really strong^H^H^H^H^Hlucky^H^H^H^H^Hshrewd and get promoted quickly, the numbers can get pretty large. The numbers below are hypotheticals but not too far off from people I know doing the BigTechCo circuit. Some do better, some do worse. As a new grad you might see $5-10k in extra annual compensation coming from vesting RSUs (i.e. in addition to your salary and cash bonus). But RSU grants start to stack. Say your grants start vesting after 1 year at 25% per year. Year by year you might see: Year 1: $40k/4 = $10k vest, new $10k grant (also vesting over 4 years) Year 2: $40k/4 + $10k/4 = $12.5k vest, new $15k grant Year 3: $40k/4 + $10k/4 + $15k/4 = $16.25k vest, new $25k grant Year 4: $40k/4 + $10k/4 + $15k/4 + $25k/4 = $22.5k vest, new $35k grant Year 5: $10k/4 + $15k/4 + $25k/4 + $35k/4 = $21k vest, new $40k grant At year 5 you've seen $82.25k worth of stock vest (assuming a flat share price). Which leaves you with $82.75k left to vest. Now you're tired of working at BigTechCo #1 and get an offer from their competitor, BigTechCo #2. You know how this works, so you tell them you've got $83k in RSUs. To make it worth your while, they offer you $160k of their own RSUs vesting on a similar schedule. You're an experienced, senior hire at this point so your RSU grants are larger, but maybe because you're a new hire who doesn't know the ropes your first couple of years at BigTechCo #2 show respectable but not explosive growth: Year 6: $160k/4 = $40k vest, new $30k grant Year 7: $160k/4 + $30k/4 = $47.5k vest, new $50k grant Then you interview again and move to BigTechCo #3. Or back to BigTechCo #1. Or you tell BigTechCo #2 you're out and they give you a retention offer. Or you get a big promotion. Either way, the RSU grants add up. All the while you've been pulling in a respectable base salary, raises, and cash bonuses. And maybe, if you're lucky, your company's stock price has gone up too. Or you realize your gross income of $200-300k in the Bay Area earns you the ability to buy property, which means you pick 2-3 of the following outcomes: [1] small and/or shitty house [2] 2-3 hour daily commute [3] overextended and house poor. So you move to the midwest and buy a palace.