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>> This is perilously close to arguing that women don't do engineering because they're not as smart as men. Smart is the wrong word. It gives the analysis a di
by NTDF9 11y ago
>> This is perilously close to arguing that women don't do engineering because they're not as smart as men.
Smart is the wrong word. It gives the analysis a different connotation. I think the word we are looking for is aptitude.
Among men, there are many who have the aptitude to do STEM. Then there are other men who don't....and that is fine.
I think the same goes for women. Many women have the aptitude...but many don't.
>> Either you're using competence to explain the disparities, or you're not. If you're not, then you need an explanation for the observable interest/career disparities. This is especially true for paths where gender bias is reflected in the low/high career paths within the same field (for example, nurses vs doctors).
I am using competence. And competence is not just inherent. Competence is developed. This is called schooling.
A lot of girls spend their teen ages trying to look good and be popular(mostly because of social expectations and peer pressure). They buckle under that pressure and choose to not study as their nerdy-male counterparts.
When they grow up, the nerdy-males get into high-flying jobs/careers while the females struggle to compete with them in the real world. That's why interest != competence
It takes work. Nobody stopped those women from pursuing the hard stuff. They did it to themselves. You can't have everything. Nobody can. Not even men.
- beat 11y agoI was going to critique this argument, but then my mouth just open and closed over and over, silently. Really? You're serious? Women aren't as smart (or competent, to use your euphemism) as men because they would rather be popular and pretty? That men do the "hard stuff" while women stop themselves? You're serious? Oh, dude. You really need to talk to some women.
- NTDF9 11y ago>> Really? You're serious? Women aren't as smart (or competent, to use your euphemism) as men because they would rather be popular and pretty? That men do the "hard stuff" while women stop themselves? Not all men do the "hard stuff". There are enough men who don't put in the work in their formative years. Those men don't get to cry unfair. These men know that they spent their time partying, fooling around and generally not developing their competence in something. What I mean is people (men and women) should realize that you can't expect anything without putting in the work. Put in the work and then if you see unfair treatment you are entitled to complain. Once again, "smart" is the wrong word. >> Oh, dude. You really need to talk to some women. Thanks for the personal attack. I'll ask my current GF and my female friends to help me find these mythical "women" you speak of.
- beat 11y agoBe sure to ask her if she thinks she was ever discouraged from entering male dominated fields, if she gave up academics in favor of popularity, and if she's ever faced sexism as an adult. You might be surprised.
- NTDF9 11y agoYou mean I should ask her why she's taking advanced stats classes in her male-dominated PhD program? Clearly she saw the opportunity and took it instead of complaining. I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up being very successful. She's doing more than most people (men or women). Also, thanks for reminding me why I like her.
- oldmanjay 11y agoInstead of alluding to a mysterious critique that refuted anything, you should have delivered it, because this post was not only sexist but you appear to have entirely missed the point in your fervor to demonstrate your "right" thinking.
- beat 11y agoOh, I'm quite certain I understood the point. Women aren't as smart as men because they're more concerned with being pretty. They cave to social pressure because they're weak, unlike those strong nerdy men that go on to do important smart things like engineering. The fact that not all men are sufficiently intelligent and brave and focused to be engineers is a sufficient defense of the sweeping generalization that women fail because of reasons completely different from men failing - specifically, desire for social status.