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Apart from the initial time they chose to smoke (and bear in mind it quite possibly might of been in a time where the health risks were far more contested) it's

Apart from the initial time they chose to smoke (and bear in mind it quite possibly might of been in a time where the health risks were far more contested) it's interesting that you suggest an addiction to be a choice.

cmdrfred 11y ago
Put a gun to the persons head (or because the self preservation instinct in them might not be strong in them, a loved one), say "Don't smoke or I pull the trigger". Magically addicts regain the ability to choose. Addiction might make it uncomfortable if you choose to stop using a substance but it doesn't use the substance for you. All action excepting reflexes are a choice.
ekanes 11y ago
While you're right that smoking (after addiction) isn't so much a choice, I think the gist of GP's point is that smokers should go out of their way to not inconvenience others.
saidajigumi 11y ago
> it's interesting that you suggest an addiction to be a choice. The data[1] makes is obvious that it's a choice, but no one said it's an easy choice. The zeitgeist has been continuing its swing against smoking in the US. [1] http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/trends/cig_smoking/ http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/trends/cig...
mikeash 11y ago
So aside from the part where taking up smoking is a choice, it's weird to suggest that it's a choice? You're right, some people got addicted back when it was cool. But there aren't a lot of those people around these days. (Most of them have either died from the habit or quit it.) Of those who remain, I do feel sorry for them. But they're not generally the ones I see complaining and trying to be a martyr. Plus if you're addicted that badly, how about using the patch as a substitute? Or smoke in private. Just because you have an addiction doesn't mean you shouldn't be responsible for satisfying it in a way that doesn't impact other people.
- lsaferite 11y ago
  > there aren't a lot of those people around these days. How incredibly naive and/or myopic. There are PLENTY of people around who both smoke and are old enough that it was still 'cool.'
  - mikeash 11y ago
    As far as I can see, the general negative health effects of smoking were well established in the 60s. Cigarettes sold in the US have had warnings about the negative health consequences since 1966. If you started before that showed up and still smoke today you'd be smoking for 50 years. I doubt there are PLENTY of people around who have been doing it that long.
    - lsaferite 11y ago
      It's only in the last 20 years or so that the tide has turned against smokers. I clearly remember smokers in restaurants as a teen. Sometime in the last 20 years smokers have gone from the norm to being the outliers in the US. But to think that those smokers are somehow dying out is silly. They are still around and quite bitter. Personally, I'm glad for the fresh air, but I can fully understand the sense of persecution the must feel.
- Amezarak 11y ago
  > You're right, some people got addicted back when it was cool. But there aren't a lot of those people around these days. Smoking is still considered cool among some subgroups. I've seen a lot of 14-16 year olds get addicted to cigarettes this year for that reason. Mostly a subset of the ones that tried vaping, which is being marketed very aggressively even in the US.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    Sorry, that was just a shorthand for "when smoking wasn't thought to be harmful to one's health." This thread sure is a gold mine for people jumping on every little mistaken word, huh?

cmdrfred 11y ago

Put a gun to the persons head (or because the self preservation instinct in them might not be strong in them, a loved one), say "Don't smoke or I pull the trigger". Magically addicts regain the ability to choose. Addiction might make it uncomfortable if you choose to stop using a substance but it doesn't use the substance for you. All action excepting reflexes are a choice.

ekanes 11y ago

While you're right that smoking (after addiction) isn't so much a choice, I think the gist of GP's point is that smokers should go out of their way to not inconvenience others.

saidajigumi 11y ago

> it's interesting that you suggest an addiction to be a choice. The data[1] makes is obvious that it's a choice, but no one said it's an easy choice. The zeitgeist has been continuing its swing against smoking in the US. [1] http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/trends/cig_smoking/ http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/trends/cig...

mikeash 11y ago

So aside from the part where taking up smoking is a choice, it's weird to suggest that it's a choice? You're right, some people got addicted back when it was cool. But there aren't a lot of those people around these days. (Most of them have either died from the habit or quit it.) Of those who remain, I do feel sorry for them. But they're not generally the ones I see complaining and trying to be a martyr. Plus if you're addicted that badly, how about using the patch as a substitute? Or smoke in private. Just because you have an addiction doesn't mean you shouldn't be responsible for satisfying it in a way that doesn't impact other people.

lsaferite 11y ago
> there aren't a lot of those people around these days. How incredibly naive and/or myopic. There are PLENTY of people around who both smoke and are old enough that it was still 'cool.'
- mikeash 11y ago
  As far as I can see, the general negative health effects of smoking were well established in the 60s. Cigarettes sold in the US have had warnings about the negative health consequences since 1966. If you started before that showed up and still smoke today you'd be smoking for 50 years. I doubt there are PLENTY of people around who have been doing it that long.
  - lsaferite 11y ago
    It's only in the last 20 years or so that the tide has turned against smokers. I clearly remember smokers in restaurants as a teen. Sometime in the last 20 years smokers have gone from the norm to being the outliers in the US. But to think that those smokers are somehow dying out is silly. They are still around and quite bitter. Personally, I'm glad for the fresh air, but I can fully understand the sense of persecution the must feel.
Amezarak 11y ago
> You're right, some people got addicted back when it was cool. But there aren't a lot of those people around these days. Smoking is still considered cool among some subgroups. I've seen a lot of 14-16 year olds get addicted to cigarettes this year for that reason. Mostly a subset of the ones that tried vaping, which is being marketed very aggressively even in the US.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Sorry, that was just a shorthand for "when smoking wasn't thought to be harmful to one's health." This thread sure is a gold mine for people jumping on every little mistaken word, huh?