5 ms·

He's Not as Smart as He Thinks

19 points by edw519 17y ago

orangecat 17y ago
Given that females are almost universally attracted to confidence/"alpha"-ness, males are better off believing that they're better than they are. (And knowing this may make you worse off, for either gender).
- miloshh 17y ago
  Why does knowing it make you worse off? If you're a man, you're better off knowing it, because confidence can be increased by practice. If you're a woman, you're also better off, because you can better distinguish confidence from real skill in men.
  - codexon 17y ago
    If we consider the Dunning-Kruger effect, the majority of people who are confident of their abilities are more likely to be incompetent; thus perpetuating the confident buffoon mentality since they are more likely to find a mate compared to those who at least know that they are ignorant.
- demallien 17y ago
  "Given that females are almost universally attracted to confidence" Do you have a citation for that assertion?
  - Psyonic 17y ago
    No doubt he'll cite "The Game." It's the new bible, don't you know?
  - orangecat 17y ago
    No, just anecdotal evidence and personal experience. And the dismissiveness of the sibling poster aside, yes, pick-up artists can be very successful by faking signals of confidence and status. Believe me, I wish it weren't true, because my personality is the exact opposite of what most women appear to find attractive. (Of course it's great for being "friends"...)
lionhearted 17y ago
This true and known, though the researcher didn't mention an important piece - men have a much, much larger standard deviation of intelligence/success/etc than women. So men are more heavily represented in engineering, physics, mathematics, etc, but they're also more frequently mentally retarded, homeless, die of homicide, commit suicide, and wind up incarcerated - general "failing" type things. One hypothesis is that for most of history, the difference in results between being "above average" and "exceptional" was very large for men, and a less so for women. So you've seen men go on dangerous trading journeys, fight for honor/prestige/titles/land, engage in duels and competitions, fight wars, break paradigms, take on establishments, and so on. Whereas for a woman - historically speaking - by simply being reasonably capable in all of the duties society expected of a woman, she could find a husband. For a woman, the best strategy would be to be a bit above average and work to progress, but not take huge risks. For men, taking victory or death type risks might've made more sense. One of the most interesting statistics I read was about what percent of people historically had children - I believe the numbers were estimated at 80% of women and 40% of men (not sure if this is all people, or people who survived infancy which was a legit problem back then). If this sort of thing interests you, there's lots of information and statistics here: http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm Very interesting read, I saw it here on HN originally. The difference in standard deviation/failure rates between men and women surprised me, but it made a lot of things make sense after reading it.
- aquateen 17y ago
  FTA: "Although [men and women] are on average the same, the people at the very top and the very bottom of the IQ bell curve are more likely to be men. That is a pattern that we see in the university setting, with men either being at the very top of the class or at the bottom."
  - ssanders82 17y ago
    I have a real problem with them jumping from intelligence to university academic success. When I was in school and had to develop team projects, if everything else was equal I'd go for a girl partner every time. Not that I thought they were any more intelligent on average but very frequently they just cared more. I could see it in their solo work as well - on average they just put in more hours than the guys.
blasdel 17y ago
Henry Ford: "Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right."
kennethh 17y ago
Most IQ test are made to be gender neutral so one can not use the IQ test as a measurement who is the smartest. That men believe they are smarter might just correspond to higher levels of testosterone.
snitko 17y ago
What was interesting was that some groups of people, both men and women, got it so wrong. Men with average to below-average intelligence think that they are quite clever. And very smart women think their intelligence is low. That's clearly a misleading statement which has nothing to do with genders. The thing is, as far as I understand, is that the smarter people are the better they are at assessing themselves, and the more they tend to be careful about their estimations. Dumb people, on the other hand, usually think they are smart, because they have very little data and knowledge to prove themselves the opposite, and every little step they make and piece of knowledge they learn seems a big deal to them.

19 points by edw519 17y ago

Given that females are almost universally attracted to confidence/"alpha"-ness, males are better off believing that they're better than they are. (And knowing this may make you worse off, for either gender).

miloshh 17y ago
Why does knowing it make you worse off? If you're a man, you're better off knowing it, because confidence can be increased by practice. If you're a woman, you're also better off, because you can better distinguish confidence from real skill in men.
- codexon 17y ago
  If we consider the Dunning-Kruger effect, the majority of people who are confident of their abilities are more likely to be incompetent; thus perpetuating the confident buffoon mentality since they are more likely to find a mate compared to those who at least know that they are ignorant.
demallien 17y ago
"Given that females are almost universally attracted to confidence" Do you have a citation for that assertion?
- Psyonic 17y ago
  No doubt he'll cite "The Game." It's the new bible, don't you know?
- orangecat 17y ago
  No, just anecdotal evidence and personal experience. And the dismissiveness of the sibling poster aside, yes, pick-up artists can be very successful by faking signals of confidence and status. Believe me, I wish it weren't true, because my personality is the exact opposite of what most women appear to find attractive. (Of course it's great for being "friends"...)

lionhearted 17y ago

This true and known, though the researcher didn't mention an important piece - men have a much, much larger standard deviation of intelligence/success/etc than women. So men are more heavily represented in engineering, physics, mathematics, etc, but they're also more frequently mentally retarded, homeless, die of homicide, commit suicide, and wind up incarcerated - general "failing" type things. One hypothesis is that for most of history, the difference in results between being "above average" and "exceptional" was very large for men, and a less so for women. So you've seen men go on dangerous trading journeys, fight for honor/prestige/titles/land, engage in duels and competitions, fight wars, break paradigms, take on establishments, and so on. Whereas for a woman - historically speaking - by simply being reasonably capable in all of the duties society expected of a woman, she could find a husband. For a woman, the best strategy would be to be a bit above average and work to progress, but not take huge risks. For men, taking victory or death type risks might've made more sense. One of the most interesting statistics I read was about what percent of people historically had children - I believe the numbers were estimated at 80% of women and 40% of men (not sure if this is all people, or people who survived infancy which was a legit problem back then). If this sort of thing interests you, there's lots of information and statistics here: http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm Very interesting read, I saw it here on HN originally. The difference in standard deviation/failure rates between men and women surprised me, but it made a lot of things make sense after reading it.

aquateen 17y ago
FTA: "Although [men and women] are on average the same, the people at the very top and the very bottom of the IQ bell curve are more likely to be men. That is a pattern that we see in the university setting, with men either being at the very top of the class or at the bottom."
- ssanders82 17y ago
  I have a real problem with them jumping from intelligence to university academic success. When I was in school and had to develop team projects, if everything else was equal I'd go for a girl partner every time. Not that I thought they were any more intelligent on average but very frequently they just cared more. I could see it in their solo work as well - on average they just put in more hours than the guys.

blasdel 17y ago

Henry Ford: "Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right."

kennethh 17y ago

Most IQ test are made to be gender neutral so one can not use the IQ test as a measurement who is the smartest. That men believe they are smarter might just correspond to higher levels of testosterone.

snitko 17y ago

What was interesting was that some groups of people, both men and women, got it so wrong. Men with average to below-average intelligence think that they are quite clever. And very smart women think their intelligence is low. That's clearly a misleading statement which has nothing to do with genders. The thing is, as far as I understand, is that the smarter people are the better they are at assessing themselves, and the more they tend to be careful about their estimations. Dumb people, on the other hand, usually think they are smart, because they have very little data and knowledge to prove themselves the opposite, and every little step they make and piece of knowledge they learn seems a big deal to them.