4 ms·

Uber isn't really a job open to the poor. First, you need to be able to afford a decent car, which is right out for the for a lot of people. Second, if you're p

by learc83 11y ago

Uber isn't really a job open to the poor. First, you need to be able to afford a decent car, which is right out for the for a lot of people. Second, if you're poor and living paycheck to paycheck, you're unlikely to have the cash to cover any major repairs. Also, after you deduct vehicle depreciation, insurance, gas, and time driving without a fare, uber doesn't pay all that well per hour. As far as actual driver statistics go, Uber isn't a good employment alternative for the poor, it's a stopgap measure for the unemployed middle class--more than half of drivers have a college degree and more than half work for less than a year.

lsc 11y ago
> Uber isn't really a job open to the poor. First, you need to be able to afford a decent car, which is right out for the for a lot of people. Second, if you're poor and living paycheck to paycheck, you're unlikely to have the cash to cover any major repairs. Which doesn't stop people from buying nice cars. Don't get me wrong, the whole recent model car thing is a barrier, you need credit; but have you seen how easy it is to get a car loan lately? It's like subprime mortgages back in the day. And uber will even give you one of those 'merchant account advance loans' to buy the car where they take their payment out of your earnings; I imagine the income requirements on those are even lower than on a conventional car loan. (though, I imagine if your credit is terrible, you are screwed either way.) Also, a 2005 model year car is... not a high bar. Remember, in most parts of America, you need a reliable car for that job at Burger King, too. And once you factor in maintenance and gas, a 2000 model year really isn't all that much cheaper than a 2005 >Also, after you deduct vehicle depreciation, insurance, gas, and time driving without a fare, uber doesn't pay all that well per hour. I'm comparing it to foodservice; and compared to burger king, from what I hear, it does pay pretty well. And the cost of operating the car (that you are gonna need for that burger king job, too) can (well, it's complicated) be paid for out of pre-FICA (well, pre-tax, but FICA is most of the tax that poor people pay) money, which is a nice benefit you don't get from burger king. But Yes, I think we're in agreement that it's not very good compared to a middle-class job. My point is just that it's pretty nice compared to a lower-class job. >As far as actual driver statistics go, Uber isn't a good employment alternative for the poor, it's a stopgap measure for the unemployed middle class--more than half of drivers have a college degree and more than half work for less than a year. 40% of working-aged Americans, from what I read, have college degrees; I don't think that's an indicator of "not poor" anymore.
- wpietri 11y ago
  > Don't get me wrong, the whole recent model car thing is a barrier, you need credit; but have you seen how easy it is to get a car loan lately? It's like subprime mortgages back in the day. You do realize that subprime mortgages turned out terribly for a lot of low-income people, right? Because when the economic circumstances changed, their debt was suddenly unaffordable, ruining credit and ruining lives? And that many of those sub-prime mortgages were basically designed from the start to take money from unsophisticated borrowers, saddling them up with debt they probably couldn't afford.
- learc83 11y ago
  >Which doesn't stop people from buying nice cars. Don't get me wrong, the whole recent model car thing is a barrier, you need credit; but have you seen how easy it is to get a car loan lately? I think we have a different definition of poor. I'm not talking about someone who make $40k a year and lives paycheck to paycheck because they spend above their means. I'm talking about people making $15k a year (or less) at near minimum wage job. The kind of people who work in fast food. >Also, a 2005 model year car is... not a high bar For a person working 30 hours a week at a fast food restaurant that's a very high bar. And you're forgetting that Uber inspects the car as well, so the clunky beaters that nearly everyone drove when I worked retail during college aren't going to pass inspection. >Remember, in most parts of America, you need a reliable car for that job at Burger King, too. Most people working at Burger King don't have reliable cars. If they live outside of a mass transit area, they rely on friends and family when they have breakdowns. If you've ever managed retail employees (I was a geek squad supervisor in college), you'll know just how frequently workers rely on other people to drop them off, or how often they call out because their car broke down. > And once you factor in maintenance and gas, a 2000 model year really isn't all that much cheaper than a 2005 That's true. But this is a common problem that poor people face. They don't have the money up front, so they take the cheaper up front option even though it's more expensive over the long term. >I'm comparing it to foodservice; and compared to burger king, from what I hear, it does pay pretty well. Definitely, but for the average burger king worker buying a car to work for Uber isn't a realistic goal. They don't have the cash and they don't have the credit to get a loan. My point is, that there is no point comparing Uber to burger king because there is a very small intersection between people who are forced to work at burger king and people who can afford to work for Uber. >My point is just that it's pretty nice compared to a lower-class job. Yes,but it has barriers to entry that keeps it from being an option for the working poor, so again there is no point in your comparison. >40% of working-aged Americans, from what I read, have college degrees If we're talking about the same statistic, the 40% number was pretty inflated because it considered 2 year and professional degrees. Also only 2.1% of people with a bachelor's degree are classified as working poor (under the poverty level and working) while over 21% of people with no college degree are classified as working poor. Since a college degree decreases your chance of being working poor by 10 times, I'd say it's a a good discriminator.

by learc83 11y ago

lsc 11y ago

> Uber isn't really a job open to the poor. First, you need to be able to afford a decent car, which is right out for the for a lot of people. Second, if you're poor and living paycheck to paycheck, you're unlikely to have the cash to cover any major repairs. Which doesn't stop people from buying nice cars. Don't get me wrong, the whole recent model car thing is a barrier, you need credit; but have you seen how easy it is to get a car loan lately? It's like subprime mortgages back in the day. And uber will even give you one of those 'merchant account advance loans' to buy the car where they take their payment out of your earnings; I imagine the income requirements on those are even lower than on a conventional car loan. (though, I imagine if your credit is terrible, you are screwed either way.) Also, a 2005 model year car is... not a high bar. Remember, in most parts of America, you need a reliable car for that job at Burger King, too. And once you factor in maintenance and gas, a 2000 model year really isn't all that much cheaper than a 2005 >Also, after you deduct vehicle depreciation, insurance, gas, and time driving without a fare, uber doesn't pay all that well per hour. I'm comparing it to foodservice; and compared to burger king, from what I hear, it does pay pretty well. And the cost of operating the car (that you are gonna need for that burger king job, too) can (well, it's complicated) be paid for out of pre-FICA (well, pre-tax, but FICA is most of the tax that poor people pay) money, which is a nice benefit you don't get from burger king. But Yes, I think we're in agreement that it's not very good compared to a middle-class job. My point is just that it's pretty nice compared to a lower-class job. >As far as actual driver statistics go, Uber isn't a good employment alternative for the poor, it's a stopgap measure for the unemployed middle class--more than half of drivers have a college degree and more than half work for less than a year. 40% of working-aged Americans, from what I read, have college degrees; I don't think that's an indicator of "not poor" anymore.

wpietri 11y ago
> Don't get me wrong, the whole recent model car thing is a barrier, you need credit; but have you seen how easy it is to get a car loan lately? It's like subprime mortgages back in the day. You do realize that subprime mortgages turned out terribly for a lot of low-income people, right? Because when the economic circumstances changed, their debt was suddenly unaffordable, ruining credit and ruining lives? And that many of those sub-prime mortgages were basically designed from the start to take money from unsophisticated borrowers, saddling them up with debt they probably couldn't afford.
learc83 11y ago
>Which doesn't stop people from buying nice cars. Don't get me wrong, the whole recent model car thing is a barrier, you need credit; but have you seen how easy it is to get a car loan lately? I think we have a different definition of poor. I'm not talking about someone who make $40k a year and lives paycheck to paycheck because they spend above their means. I'm talking about people making $15k a year (or less) at near minimum wage job. The kind of people who work in fast food. >Also, a 2005 model year car is... not a high bar For a person working 30 hours a week at a fast food restaurant that's a very high bar. And you're forgetting that Uber inspects the car as well, so the clunky beaters that nearly everyone drove when I worked retail during college aren't going to pass inspection. >Remember, in most parts of America, you need a reliable car for that job at Burger King, too. Most people working at Burger King don't have reliable cars. If they live outside of a mass transit area, they rely on friends and family when they have breakdowns. If you've ever managed retail employees (I was a geek squad supervisor in college), you'll know just how frequently workers rely on other people to drop them off, or how often they call out because their car broke down. > And once you factor in maintenance and gas, a 2000 model year really isn't all that much cheaper than a 2005 That's true. But this is a common problem that poor people face. They don't have the money up front, so they take the cheaper up front option even though it's more expensive over the long term. >I'm comparing it to foodservice; and compared to burger king, from what I hear, it does pay pretty well. Definitely, but for the average burger king worker buying a car to work for Uber isn't a realistic goal. They don't have the cash and they don't have the credit to get a loan. My point is, that there is no point comparing Uber to burger king because there is a very small intersection between people who are forced to work at burger king and people who can afford to work for Uber. >My point is just that it's pretty nice compared to a lower-class job. Yes,but it has barriers to entry that keeps it from being an option for the working poor, so again there is no point in your comparison. >40% of working-aged Americans, from what I read, have college degrees If we're talking about the same statistic, the 40% number was pretty inflated because it considered 2 year and professional degrees. Also only 2.1% of people with a bachelor's degree are classified as working poor (under the poverty level and working) while over 21% of people with no college degree are classified as working poor. Since a college degree decreases your chance of being working poor by 10 times, I'd say it's a a good discriminator.