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You: > a problem Me, earlier: >> a little annoying See the difference? You're arguing against something i never said, and you're being a dick while doing so

You: > a problem Me, earlier: >> a little annoying See the difference? You're arguing against something i never said, and you're being a dick while doing so, instead of stepping back and considering whether you misunderstood the seemingly unreasonable thing someone else said. > The same way most people learn to ride without training wheels. Slow, wobbly, tilting, and falling often. Except this time, it's on purpose. I suggest using safety pads. Not usefully feasible. Primarily because even a simple sideways fall would likely damage the bike, even if only a little. Training would definitely compound damage. And if you used something soft enough to protect the bike, the training would so far removed from reality to be useless. Plus, generally with a bike you don't fall all the way unless you've already completely lost control in such a way that you're already ouside the bounds of any training. Honestly, i don't even know what movements you'd recommend bikers learn in "fall training". Note also the lack of such videos on youtube. The only one i found to that effect even said "advice can be only very general, as every fall on a bike is different". > The same way most people learn to ride without training wheels. Also on that one: In all cases of this i've seen someone was holding the bike and making sure the learner won't just crash uncontrollably. I'm wondering whether you ever learned how to ride a bike. > Rotating the pedals backwards or squeezing in the right handle isn't what I'd call a "procedure" You don't actually seem to have a mental model of what stopping on a bike at an intersection entails. > Driving a stick-shift car is far more of a hassle to brake. One last comment on this: Yes, it may be a hassle, but it never changes. The procedure is always the same. For a biker every intersection requires different steps, especially in cities with a wide variety of intersection types.

Nadya 11y ago
>it's the physical AND mental effort required to evaluate all the possible options for stopping and then balancing the bike, then choosing and encating the right one. My argument against this is that it takes very little physical effort and almost no mental effort to come to a stop when biking for the majority of the population beyond the training stages of riding a bike, in which it takes a lot more mental effort to maintain balance and come to a safe and complete stop. I wasn't focusing on your "a little annoying" statement but on this mountain of a mole hill you created after saying it was only "a little annoying" by making it sound like a long and arduous problem that was mentally straining and physically difficult where every possible option (what option besides "apply brakes" is there?) has to be considered while maintaining balance on the bike (something not difficult for the general population) and properly selecting from these many options (1?), selecting the proper course of action (of the only course of action?) and after all of that mental effort (that had to be done in mere moments!) to actually physically act upon it without screwing it up! Now, I would like to repeat myself, I don't think many people find deciding whether to brake or not or the act of braking on a bicycle to be that mentally or physically taxing beyond the training stages. In fact, I would say it's more reflexive and "muscle memory" ingrained within them that their subconscious is able to take care of a majority of the process without much conscious thought of the cyclist. >In all cases of this i've seen someone was holding the bike and making sure the learner won't just crash uncontrollably. I'm wondering whether you ever learned how to ride a bike. I was presented a bike on my 5th birthday. My father removed the training wheels on the 2nd day against my mother's wishes and offered no supervision beyond watching me fall. By the end of the day I was riding around, although rather scraped up. I still ride my 21 speed around the canyon I live in because skateboarding on these canyon roads is suicidal - too many rocks and there isn't even an official "bike lane" to ride in. You share the same lane as the cars. Really impatient cars who are going 80mph in a 55mph. I'd rather not risk hitting a rock. >You don't actually seem to have a mental model of what stopping on a bike at an intersection entails Slow down while approaching the intersection. Tilt the bike towards the curb (right-hand side in the U.S.A) and place your right foot down to create a tripod. Braking a bike isn't rocket science.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Cyclists blow through red lights because it takes energy to get going again if you stop. That's it. Call it laziness, but if you're commuting it can save a lot of energy for whatever you're doing when you get there.
  - Nadya 11y ago
    Cars could save a lot of time blowing through red lights too. They'd burn a lot less gas if they didn't stop & go, which would save energy and world resources. Assuming they don't crash of course; but since we're assuming the cyclist isn't being hit and killed on their way to work - I think we can assume the car is making it through okay too. It is laziness - and a sense of entitlement. "I'm on a bike so everyone else must wait on me and find a way to break the laws of physics (pun intended) to prevent their car from hitting me". It saves a lot of time and energy until you get struck by a car. Which could result in the loss of all of your time and energy. Not a worthy trade off.
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  You continue to insist that your opinion of "one only has to brake and there's nothing else to consider" is a fact, going so far as to ask the right question in parens, but then immediately barging on to indicate you don't even care to hear or consider what else there might be. Unless you show signs of actually caring to learn, i won't go in great detail, but do yourself a favor and consider these bullet points: Pedestrians, other bikers, visibility when stopped, space available for tilt, viability of tilt aids (curb, poles, rails, trees), car parking gaps, street vs bike path. It's not a giant problem, but it's also not nothing either. > canyon roads So, nothing like this? https://goo.gl/maps/gYhhk https://goo.gl/maps/gYhhk https://goo.gl/maps/NxGza https://goo.gl/maps/NxGza https://goo.gl/maps/YcGHN https://goo.gl/maps/YcGHN > Tilt the bike towards the curb (right-hand side in the U.S.A) and place your right foot down to create a tripod. You're making the mistake of assuming that that kind of condition is universally present. See above for a non-exhaustive list that may change your situation wildly.
  - Nadya 11y ago

Nadya 11y ago

>it's the physical AND mental effort required to evaluate all the possible options for stopping and then balancing the bike, then choosing and encating the right one. My argument against this is that it takes very little physical effort and almost no mental effort to come to a stop when biking for the majority of the population beyond the training stages of riding a bike, in which it takes a lot more mental effort to maintain balance and come to a safe and complete stop. I wasn't focusing on your "a little annoying" statement but on this mountain of a mole hill you created after saying it was only "a little annoying" by making it sound like a long and arduous problem that was mentally straining and physically difficult where every possible option (what option besides "apply brakes" is there?) has to be considered while maintaining balance on the bike (something not difficult for the general population) and properly selecting from these many options (1?), selecting the proper course of action (of the only course of action?) and after all of that mental effort (that had to be done in mere moments!) to actually physically act upon it without screwing it up! Now, I would like to repeat myself, I don't think many people find deciding whether to brake or not or the act of braking on a bicycle to be that mentally or physically taxing beyond the training stages. In fact, I would say it's more reflexive and "muscle memory" ingrained within them that their subconscious is able to take care of a majority of the process without much conscious thought of the cyclist. >In all cases of this i've seen someone was holding the bike and making sure the learner won't just crash uncontrollably. I'm wondering whether you ever learned how to ride a bike. I was presented a bike on my 5th birthday. My father removed the training wheels on the 2nd day against my mother's wishes and offered no supervision beyond watching me fall. By the end of the day I was riding around, although rather scraped up. I still ride my 21 speed around the canyon I live in because skateboarding on these canyon roads is suicidal - too many rocks and there isn't even an official "bike lane" to ride in. You share the same lane as the cars. Really impatient cars who are going 80mph in a 55mph. I'd rather not risk hitting a rock. >You don't actually seem to have a mental model of what stopping on a bike at an intersection entails Slow down while approaching the intersection. Tilt the bike towards the curb (right-hand side in the U.S.A) and place your right foot down to create a tripod. Braking a bike isn't rocket science.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
Cyclists blow through red lights because it takes energy to get going again if you stop. That's it. Call it laziness, but if you're commuting it can save a lot of energy for whatever you're doing when you get there.
- Nadya 11y ago
  Cars could save a lot of time blowing through red lights too. They'd burn a lot less gas if they didn't stop & go, which would save energy and world resources. Assuming they don't crash of course; but since we're assuming the cyclist isn't being hit and killed on their way to work - I think we can assume the car is making it through okay too. It is laziness - and a sense of entitlement. "I'm on a bike so everyone else must wait on me and find a way to break the laws of physics (pun intended) to prevent their car from hitting me". It saves a lot of time and energy until you get struck by a car. Which could result in the loss of all of your time and energy. Not a worthy trade off.
Mithaldu 11y ago
You continue to insist that your opinion of "one only has to brake and there's nothing else to consider" is a fact, going so far as to ask the right question in parens, but then immediately barging on to indicate you don't even care to hear or consider what else there might be. Unless you show signs of actually caring to learn, i won't go in great detail, but do yourself a favor and consider these bullet points: Pedestrians, other bikers, visibility when stopped, space available for tilt, viability of tilt aids (curb, poles, rails, trees), car parking gaps, street vs bike path. It's not a giant problem, but it's also not nothing either. > canyon roads So, nothing like this? https://goo.gl/maps/gYhhk https://goo.gl/maps/gYhhk https://goo.gl/maps/NxGza https://goo.gl/maps/NxGza https://goo.gl/maps/YcGHN https://goo.gl/maps/YcGHN > Tilt the bike towards the curb (right-hand side in the U.S.A) and place your right foot down to create a tripod. You're making the mistake of assuming that that kind of condition is universally present. See above for a non-exhaustive list that may change your situation wildly.
- Nadya 11y ago