4 ms·

To some degree, yes. However... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#France_and_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espio

To some degree, yes. However... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#France_and_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#France_an... US/French economic espionage has been an ongoing problem since before the Cold War ended. Its the "normal" state of affairs, similar to US v. China. Its simply a question of how "gentlemanly" the matter is handled. France/US tends to be rather "gentlemanly" as they tend to target the negotiations/technology/contracts specifically. > According to an economic espionage order, the NSA intercepted all French corporate contracts and negotiations valued at more than $200 million in many different industries, such as telecommunications, electrical generation, gas, oil, nuclear and renewable energy, and environmental and healthcare technologies.

bediger4000 11y ago
I think I might have been unclear. I often read that "this is the sort of thing we expect spy agencies to do". I stipulate that economic espionage is part of what spy agencies do, and should do. So, "normal" it is. I'm interested in what information gets distributed to which US corporations, and maybe why. That is, should the NSA give Boeing info it's filched from Airbus, or should Lockheed-Martin get it, too? Why exclude Grumman-Northup? Did LockMart give more in campaign contributions? Is that why they got the insider info? I want to use real US companies, I'm pretty certain that defense contractors aren't multi-nationals. Certainly you could erase specific corporate names and re-fill the blanks with corporations from another, arbitrary, market. The problem is that the NSA (or whoever, the President maybe) becomes the arbiter of which corporation succeeds and which doesn't, regardless of what the rest of the market perceives, and how the rest of the market acts. This seems like a bad idea.
- fweespeech 11y ago
  Fair enough :)
digi_owl 11y ago
French and US relations have been "odd" ever since WW2, if not before. The Euro was in part seeded by De Gaulle in an attempt to restrict US economic involvement in western Europe.
dimino 11y ago
There's no evidence whatsoever that the NSA has given any industrial intelligence to private US companies. According to this brief article (why we link to TechCrunch instead of WikiLeaks on HN is not clear to me), the leaked documents do not bridge the gap between the NSA spying and the NSA delivering industry secrets to private US companies, which we know China to actually do.
- bediger4000 11y ago
  There's no evidence whatsoever that the NSA has given any industrial intelligence to private US companies. Thank you, yes, I believe that's true: there's no direct evidence, or direct admission, that intellectual property gets given to US corporations. But it's only a small step from pirating that intellectual property to giving it away to a great US company, a company that has had no problem in the past with "acquiring" documentation: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-weissman/the-boeing-scandal-after-_b_24783.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-weissman/the-boeing-sca... It also appears the in the 1950s, a time when honesty was prized, someone made money in the stock market based on advance knowledge of a CIA coup: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/2008/10/they_made_a_killing.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/20... I'm just saying that it appears that industrial intelligence does make its way to various corporations. Given the mendacity of the Intelligence Community with Congress lately, one has to wonder about the fierce denials of giving industrial intelligence to private companies.

bediger4000 11y ago

I think I might have been unclear. I often read that "this is the sort of thing we expect spy agencies to do". I stipulate that economic espionage is part of what spy agencies do, and should do. So, "normal" it is. I'm interested in what information gets distributed to which US corporations, and maybe why. That is, should the NSA give Boeing info it's filched from Airbus, or should Lockheed-Martin get it, too? Why exclude Grumman-Northup? Did LockMart give more in campaign contributions? Is that why they got the insider info? I want to use real US companies, I'm pretty certain that defense contractors aren't multi-nationals. Certainly you could erase specific corporate names and re-fill the blanks with corporations from another, arbitrary, market. The problem is that the NSA (or whoever, the President maybe) becomes the arbiter of which corporation succeeds and which doesn't, regardless of what the rest of the market perceives, and how the rest of the market acts. This seems like a bad idea.

fweespeech 11y ago
Fair enough :)

digi_owl 11y ago

French and US relations have been "odd" ever since WW2, if not before. The Euro was in part seeded by De Gaulle in an attempt to restrict US economic involvement in western Europe.

dimino 11y ago

There's no evidence whatsoever that the NSA has given any industrial intelligence to private US companies. According to this brief article (why we link to TechCrunch instead of WikiLeaks on HN is not clear to me), the leaked documents do not bridge the gap between the NSA spying and the NSA delivering industry secrets to private US companies, which we know China to actually do.

bediger4000 11y ago
There's no evidence whatsoever that the NSA has given any industrial intelligence to private US companies. Thank you, yes, I believe that's true: there's no direct evidence, or direct admission, that intellectual property gets given to US corporations. But it's only a small step from pirating that intellectual property to giving it away to a great US company, a company that has had no problem in the past with "acquiring" documentation: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-weissman/the-boeing-scandal-after-_b_24783.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-weissman/the-boeing-sca... It also appears the in the 1950s, a time when honesty was prized, someone made money in the stock market based on advance knowledge of a CIA coup: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/2008/10/they_made_a_killing.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/20... I'm just saying that it appears that industrial intelligence does make its way to various corporations. Given the mendacity of the Intelligence Community with Congress lately, one has to wonder about the fierce denials of giving industrial intelligence to private companies.