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> If biking takes such a toll on your mental processes, I suggest to quit biking. That is an amazingly dickish comment and shows me you're not even attempting

> If biking takes such a toll on your mental processes, I suggest to quit biking. That is an amazingly dickish comment and shows me you're not even attempting to see my side. Then again, as a skateboarder you're likely operating at a completely different level of physical control in comparison to the average citizen that you couldn't see my side even if you tried. Do note that the important point is not the question of "how to stop in time?" but of "ugh, the procedure of stopping here is quite annoying, i'd rather go on". Edit: Actually, i have a question: > Learning how to fall is extremely important and doesn't seem to be something practiced by cyclists. How exactly do you propose a cyclist train falling?

Nadya 11y ago
>How exactly do you propose a cyclist train falling? The same way most people learn to ride without training wheels. Slow, wobbly, tilting, and falling often. Except this time, it's on purpose. I suggest using safety pads. >That is an amazingly dickish comment and shows me you're not even attempting to see my side. I'm sorry, but I don't think maintaining balance on a bike, even at slow speeds, is a problem for the majority of the population. It's a problem that usually only presents itself in children and those learning how to bike. If you suffer from an innate lack of balance (ie. most people would consider you a 'clutz') I would suggest walking over biking for you own, and other people's, safety. >Do note that the important point is not the question of "how to stop in time?" but of "ugh, the procedure of stopping here is quite annoying, i'd rather go on". Rotating the pedals backwards or squeezing in the right handle isn't what I'd call a "procedure" anymore than moving your foot from the gas to the brake in a car is. Does it suck to have to stop at intersections? Sure. That's not an excuse to blow right through it (not that it seems you think it's an excuse either). Driving a stick-shift car is far more of a hassle to brake. Especially when going up hill. Yet cars are still expected (and often do) come to a stop.
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  You: > a problem Me, earlier: >> a little annoying See the difference? You're arguing against something i never said, and you're being a dick while doing so, instead of stepping back and considering whether you misunderstood the seemingly unreasonable thing someone else said. > The same way most people learn to ride without training wheels. Slow, wobbly, tilting, and falling often. Except this time, it's on purpose. I suggest using safety pads. Not usefully feasible. Primarily because even a simple sideways fall would likely damage the bike, even if only a little. Training would definitely compound damage. And if you used something soft enough to protect the bike, the training would so far removed from reality to be useless. Plus, generally with a bike you don't fall all the way unless you've already completely lost control in such a way that you're already ouside the bounds of any training. Honestly, i don't even know what movements you'd recommend bikers learn in "fall training". Note also the lack of such videos on youtube. The only one i found to that effect even said "advice can be only very general, as every fall on a bike is different". > The same way most people learn to ride without training wheels. Also on that one: In all cases of this i've seen someone was holding the bike and making sure the learner won't just crash uncontrollably. I'm wondering whether you ever learned how to ride a bike. > Rotating the pedals backwards or squeezing in the right handle isn't what I'd call a "procedure" You don't actually seem to have a mental model of what stopping on a bike at an intersection entails. > Driving a stick-shift car is far more of a hassle to brake. One last comment on this: Yes, it may be a hassle, but it never changes. The procedure is always the same. For a biker every intersection requires different steps, especially in cities with a wide variety of intersection types.
  - Nadya 11y ago
    >it's the physical AND mental effort required to evaluate all the possible options for stopping and then balancing the bike, then choosing and encating the right one. My argument against this is that it takes very little physical effort and almost no mental effort to come to a stop when biking for the majority of the population beyond the training stages of riding a bike, in which it takes a lot more mental effort to maintain balance and come to a safe and complete stop. I wasn't focusing on your "a little annoying" statement but on this mountain of a mole hill you created after saying it was only "a little annoying" by making it sound like a long and arduous problem that was mentally straining and physically difficult where every possible option (what option besides "apply brakes" is there?) has to be considered while maintaining balance on the bike (something not difficult for the general population) and properly selecting from these many options (1?), selecting the proper course of action (of the only course of action?) and after all of that mental effort (that had to be done in mere moments!) to actually physically act upon it without screwing it up! Now, I would like to repeat myself, I don't think many people find deciding whether to brake or not or the act of braking on a bicycle to be that mentally or physically taxing beyond the training stages. In fact, I would say it's more reflexive and "muscle memory" ingrained within them that their subconscious is able to take care of a majority of the process without much conscious thought of the cyclist. >In all cases of this i've seen someone was holding the bike and making sure the learner won't just crash uncontrollably. I'm wondering whether you ever learned how to ride a bike. I was presented a bike on my 5th birthday. My father removed the training wheels on the 2nd day against my mother's wishes and offered no supervision beyond watching me fall. By the end of the day I was riding around, although rather scraped up. I still ride my 21 speed around the canyon I live in because skateboarding on these canyon roads is suicidal - too many rocks and there isn't even an official "bike lane" to ride in. You share the same lane as the cars. Really impatient cars who are going 80mph in a 55mph. I'd rather not risk hitting a rock. >You don't actually seem to have a mental model of what stopping on a bike at an intersection entails Slow down while approaching the intersection. Tilt the bike towards the curb (right-hand side in the U.S.A) and place your right foot down to create a tripod. Braking a bike isn't rocket science.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago

Nadya 11y ago

>How exactly do you propose a cyclist train falling? The same way most people learn to ride without training wheels. Slow, wobbly, tilting, and falling often. Except this time, it's on purpose. I suggest using safety pads. >That is an amazingly dickish comment and shows me you're not even attempting to see my side. I'm sorry, but I don't think maintaining balance on a bike, even at slow speeds, is a problem for the majority of the population. It's a problem that usually only presents itself in children and those learning how to bike. If you suffer from an innate lack of balance (ie. most people would consider you a 'clutz') I would suggest walking over biking for you own, and other people's, safety. >Do note that the important point is not the question of "how to stop in time?" but of "ugh, the procedure of stopping here is quite annoying, i'd rather go on". Rotating the pedals backwards or squeezing in the right handle isn't what I'd call a "procedure" anymore than moving your foot from the gas to the brake in a car is. Does it suck to have to stop at intersections? Sure. That's not an excuse to blow right through it (not that it seems you think it's an excuse either). Driving a stick-shift car is far more of a hassle to brake. Especially when going up hill. Yet cars are still expected (and often do) come to a stop.

Mithaldu 11y ago
You: > a problem Me, earlier: >> a little annoying See the difference? You're arguing against something i never said, and you're being a dick while doing so, instead of stepping back and considering whether you misunderstood the seemingly unreasonable thing someone else said. > The same way most people learn to ride without training wheels. Slow, wobbly, tilting, and falling often. Except this time, it's on purpose. I suggest using safety pads. Not usefully feasible. Primarily because even a simple sideways fall would likely damage the bike, even if only a little. Training would definitely compound damage. And if you used something soft enough to protect the bike, the training would so far removed from reality to be useless. Plus, generally with a bike you don't fall all the way unless you've already completely lost control in such a way that you're already ouside the bounds of any training. Honestly, i don't even know what movements you'd recommend bikers learn in "fall training". Note also the lack of such videos on youtube. The only one i found to that effect even said "advice can be only very general, as every fall on a bike is different". > The same way most people learn to ride without training wheels. Also on that one: In all cases of this i've seen someone was holding the bike and making sure the learner won't just crash uncontrollably. I'm wondering whether you ever learned how to ride a bike. > Rotating the pedals backwards or squeezing in the right handle isn't what I'd call a "procedure" You don't actually seem to have a mental model of what stopping on a bike at an intersection entails. > Driving a stick-shift car is far more of a hassle to brake. One last comment on this: Yes, it may be a hassle, but it never changes. The procedure is always the same. For a biker every intersection requires different steps, especially in cities with a wide variety of intersection types.
- Nadya 11y ago
  >it's the physical AND mental effort required to evaluate all the possible options for stopping and then balancing the bike, then choosing and encating the right one. My argument against this is that it takes very little physical effort and almost no mental effort to come to a stop when biking for the majority of the population beyond the training stages of riding a bike, in which it takes a lot more mental effort to maintain balance and come to a safe and complete stop. I wasn't focusing on your "a little annoying" statement but on this mountain of a mole hill you created after saying it was only "a little annoying" by making it sound like a long and arduous problem that was mentally straining and physically difficult where every possible option (what option besides "apply brakes" is there?) has to be considered while maintaining balance on the bike (something not difficult for the general population) and properly selecting from these many options (1?), selecting the proper course of action (of the only course of action?) and after all of that mental effort (that had to be done in mere moments!) to actually physically act upon it without screwing it up! Now, I would like to repeat myself, I don't think many people find deciding whether to brake or not or the act of braking on a bicycle to be that mentally or physically taxing beyond the training stages. In fact, I would say it's more reflexive and "muscle memory" ingrained within them that their subconscious is able to take care of a majority of the process without much conscious thought of the cyclist. >In all cases of this i've seen someone was holding the bike and making sure the learner won't just crash uncontrollably. I'm wondering whether you ever learned how to ride a bike. I was presented a bike on my 5th birthday. My father removed the training wheels on the 2nd day against my mother's wishes and offered no supervision beyond watching me fall. By the end of the day I was riding around, although rather scraped up. I still ride my 21 speed around the canyon I live in because skateboarding on these canyon roads is suicidal - too many rocks and there isn't even an official "bike lane" to ride in. You share the same lane as the cars. Really impatient cars who are going 80mph in a 55mph. I'd rather not risk hitting a rock. >You don't actually seem to have a mental model of what stopping on a bike at an intersection entails Slow down while approaching the intersection. Tilt the bike towards the curb (right-hand side in the U.S.A) and place your right foot down to create a tripod. Braking a bike isn't rocket science.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago