5 ms·

Vassal: Engine for building and playing online board games and card games

91 points by lobo_tuerto 11y ago

math0ne 11y ago
Tabletop Simulator seems to have gained much more traction than this ever did.
- mcphage 11y ago
  Vassal has been used to play over a thousand different games for a decade now. It'll take Tabletop Simulator a while to get anywhere near that much traction.
- billbradley 11y ago
  Is there a good spot to see available mods, similar to vassals? http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Category:Modules http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Category:Modules I'd be interested in picking up tabletop simulator depending on what's available.
  - splawn 11y ago
    Take a look at its workshop page on Steam. It really does have a nice selection of games. (I think Vassal probably has more wargames though if that is what you are into)
  - ErikRogneby 11y ago
    here: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=286160 http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=286160
    - billbradley 11y ago
      Excellent, thanks.
- panzagl 11y ago
  In a lot of ways the cruftiness of vassal is a filter function- if you're not willing to put in the effort to learn vassal, you're not likely to have the motivation to play the kind of complicated games for the amount of time it takes to reach completion that vassal was made for. An upsurge in popularity caused by something like a Steam sale would probably kill the community, or at least change it beyond recognition.
jaryd 11y ago
I use Vassal to play and spectate Twilight Struggle -- hell of a lot easier than trying to find people in my area who are willing and able to play :) Side note: interesting example of how not to manage a delayed Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/559431060/twilight-struggle-digital-edition/comments https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/559431060/twilight-stru... -- the vitriol in this thread is pretty ridiculous.
- busterarm 11y ago
  Gosh, can I join you? I bought this game ages ago and have never been able to play it. (OMFG, there's a Sekigahara module!!! Another great game I own and can't get players for )
  - civilian 11y ago
    Count me in three? HN Twilight Struggle FTW! Email's in my profile. //edit actually I confused Twilight Imperium for Twilight Struggle. Still, either would be great.
  - fsiefken 11y ago
    O nice, Sekigahara has been on my wishlist for a while! For people who like 2 player wargame like games, check Polis fight for the Hegemony. It has a vassal module and is also playable on boardgame arena.
EtienneK 11y ago
Vassal seems to be the best way to stream board games over twitch. Love it.
shedletsky 11y ago
Ew. Sourceforge. I was excited to try it but I'm afraid of what crapware I'll get if I do.
- guard-of-terra 11y ago
  Checkout sources & build your own binaries.
skrowl 11y ago
At first I was "Oooh, I like board games!" but then I was "aww, Sorceforge" and then later I was "Aww, Java". I'll stick with Tabletop Simulator for now, but you'd think something like this could be implemented in plugin-free HTML5 by now.
- tokenizerrr 11y ago
  Java for desktop isn't at all bad.
  - skrowl 11y ago
    I'll assume you're on Mac. I roll windows here and haven't had Java installed in almost 3 years. Couldn't be happier. Can't wait until I can do the same to Flash.
    - tokenizerrr 11y ago
      Nope, I'm on Windows and Ubuntu. I don't have any Java in the browser, on ubuntu I apt-get the openjdk and on Windows I use ninite.
- aidenn0 11y ago
  I had the opposite reaction; TS was "eew, steam" for me.
- BashiBazouk 11y ago
  Off topic, but where are we on Sourceforge? I read a few scary articles but have not been following close enough to know how bad it is. Is it all project downloads have crapware bundled to the installer or is it just the occasional unmaintained project, so be careful? Somewhere in between? I was bored this weekend cleaning up bookmarks and came across a link to MegaMek. I played it long ago but it was not quite up to the level of being fun for me. I saw it had progressed quite a few versions and went to download it to see if it had improved only to be taken to Sourceforge. And that was the end of that. Is my paranoia justified?
civilian 11y ago
I've installed Vassal and tried it but I haven't actually played multiplayer with it. My main point of confusion is--- it's really odd that it doesn't have rules enforcement. I know that it makes it infinitely more complex to code a module, but for some games (like A Distant Plain and Twilight Imperium) rules enforcement would be fantastic.
- jbattle 11y ago
  I always assumed it was an intentional design decision ... 1) these are board games, and for many people working through the mechanics is a big part of the fun 2) it's an attempt to make it clear the tool isn't a replacement for games but a supplement (i.e. a hedge against confrontations over copyright)
  - Jtsummers 11y ago
    I figured it was a holdover from starting as a wargaming simulator. The rules on those are somewhat varied (x inches in one system, hexes in another, squares in a third, or y inches in a fourth) so the ability to shift things around (flexibly) allows games to be simulated with greater ease.
- lfowles 11y ago
  I dove deep and burnt out, but I was playing with something similar and talking with the VASSAL lead about this topic. See the VASSAL 4 roadmap[0] (although I can't remember if rules enforcement is ACTUALLY on the roadmap or if it got pushed off because of complexity.) Also keep in mind that modules are mostly data driven and about defining the pieces and the playing area. [0]: http://www.vassalengine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3914&start=225#p31141 http://www.vassalengine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3914&s...
splawn 11y ago
Vassal seems like more of a staple of the hardcore wargaming community (For the most part, not making an absolute statement here). If you want to play boardgames with less learning curve (both the interface and the games themselves) I recommend boardgamearena.com for web-based (but with a smaller library) or Tabletop Simulator for native (bigger library through Steam's workshop thing) EDIT: and of course actual physical copies of the games are probably the best way to go if possible.
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  I think this is a fair statement. It pretty much started as a way for board wargamers to play each other by email. In fact, the name is an acronym (Virtual Advanced Squad Leader - VASL). It was designed to be flexible, though, so in theory a VASSAL module can be made for any board game.
- thaumasiotes 11y ago
  > EDIT: and of course actual physical copies of the games are probably the best way to go if possible. In terms of logistics, physical copies are the worst possible way to play. They have benefits if you're playing as a bonding activity, since everyone has to be there. They have absolutely no benefits, and enormous drawbacks, if you're playing to play.
  - fragmede 11y ago
    > absolutely no benefits Digital games do have their advantages, but that's going a bit too far. Is it possible for someone can't programming to create a digital game? Could they implement "house rules" on an existing game? In games that have trading, how about non-standard trading? (Eg I've played Settlers with futures) How about granting a younger player an advantage to compensate (eg, give them an extra $1000 to start)? How immune to cheating is Vassal? If the digital copy runs on Windows, a bunch of my friends already have a copy of ollydbg installed. Is there also a feasible to detect if there's a Excel spreadsheet or Google Doc open that tallying all thes cards used and other information about the game state, and spitting out the odds that my next card is going to be the one I'm looking for? Meanwhile, playing a game locally means playing with others humans with similarly limited memory and processing power, which means my naive gameplay, which doesn't have the odds of every possible combination of cards memorized, isn't a game of Humans vs. Cylons. (Not that I understand the attraction to online poker either.) Is there any guarantee that the person on the other end isn't grepping /usr/share/dict/words in our digital Boggle game? Teaching people how to play ("customized live interactive tutorial") is far better with a (patient) real person rather than a recorded tutorial, especially when the game hasn't been translated. Are you going to be able to dig up a digital copy in 30 years and play that on the latest computer? Can you give your digital copy to a friend? How many copies of the game do you need to buy for everyone to play? Most online games require each person to buy their own copy, but aside from Magic and other CCG, the box and some friends is all you need. That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure you can come up with other advantages that physical copies of the game have.
ErikRogneby 11y ago
This reminds me a lot of http://www.brettspielwelt.de/Spiele/ http://www.brettspielwelt.de/Spiele/ which has been around for over a decade. The game list isn't as big as Vassal, but the client and interface for the games has been pretty reliable.
Zardoz84 11y ago
Would be interesting to try to build a IA to play Advanced Civilization. If the original DOS game adaptation had a very competent IA, what could archive now ?

91 points by lobo_tuerto 11y ago

math0ne 11y ago

Tabletop Simulator seems to have gained much more traction than this ever did.

mcphage 11y ago
Vassal has been used to play over a thousand different games for a decade now. It'll take Tabletop Simulator a while to get anywhere near that much traction.
billbradley 11y ago
Is there a good spot to see available mods, similar to vassals? http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Category:Modules http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Category:Modules I'd be interested in picking up tabletop simulator depending on what's available.
- splawn 11y ago
  Take a look at its workshop page on Steam. It really does have a nice selection of games. (I think Vassal probably has more wargames though if that is what you are into)
- ErikRogneby 11y ago
  here: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=286160 http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=286160
  - billbradley 11y ago
    Excellent, thanks.
panzagl 11y ago
In a lot of ways the cruftiness of vassal is a filter function- if you're not willing to put in the effort to learn vassal, you're not likely to have the motivation to play the kind of complicated games for the amount of time it takes to reach completion that vassal was made for. An upsurge in popularity caused by something like a Steam sale would probably kill the community, or at least change it beyond recognition.

jaryd 11y ago

I use Vassal to play and spectate Twilight Struggle -- hell of a lot easier than trying to find people in my area who are willing and able to play :) Side note: interesting example of how not to manage a delayed Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/559431060/twilight-struggle-digital-edition/comments https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/559431060/twilight-stru... -- the vitriol in this thread is pretty ridiculous.

busterarm 11y ago
Gosh, can I join you? I bought this game ages ago and have never been able to play it. (OMFG, there's a Sekigahara module!!! Another great game I own and can't get players for )
- civilian 11y ago
  Count me in three? HN Twilight Struggle FTW! Email's in my profile. //edit actually I confused Twilight Imperium for Twilight Struggle. Still, either would be great.
- fsiefken 11y ago
  O nice, Sekigahara has been on my wishlist for a while! For people who like 2 player wargame like games, check Polis fight for the Hegemony. It has a vassal module and is also playable on boardgame arena.

EtienneK 11y ago

Vassal seems to be the best way to stream board games over twitch. Love it.

shedletsky 11y ago

Ew. Sourceforge. I was excited to try it but I'm afraid of what crapware I'll get if I do.

guard-of-terra 11y ago
Checkout sources & build your own binaries.

skrowl 11y ago

At first I was "Oooh, I like board games!" but then I was "aww, Sorceforge" and then later I was "Aww, Java". I'll stick with Tabletop Simulator for now, but you'd think something like this could be implemented in plugin-free HTML5 by now.

tokenizerrr 11y ago
Java for desktop isn't at all bad.
- skrowl 11y ago
  I'll assume you're on Mac. I roll windows here and haven't had Java installed in almost 3 years. Couldn't be happier. Can't wait until I can do the same to Flash.
  - tokenizerrr 11y ago
    Nope, I'm on Windows and Ubuntu. I don't have any Java in the browser, on ubuntu I apt-get the openjdk and on Windows I use ninite.
aidenn0 11y ago
I had the opposite reaction; TS was "eew, steam" for me.
BashiBazouk 11y ago
Off topic, but where are we on Sourceforge? I read a few scary articles but have not been following close enough to know how bad it is. Is it all project downloads have crapware bundled to the installer or is it just the occasional unmaintained project, so be careful? Somewhere in between? I was bored this weekend cleaning up bookmarks and came across a link to MegaMek. I played it long ago but it was not quite up to the level of being fun for me. I saw it had progressed quite a few versions and went to download it to see if it had improved only to be taken to Sourceforge. And that was the end of that. Is my paranoia justified?

civilian 11y ago

I've installed Vassal and tried it but I haven't actually played multiplayer with it. My main point of confusion is--- it's really odd that it doesn't have rules enforcement. I know that it makes it infinitely more complex to code a module, but for some games (like A Distant Plain and Twilight Imperium) rules enforcement would be fantastic.

jbattle 11y ago
I always assumed it was an intentional design decision ... 1) these are board games, and for many people working through the mechanics is a big part of the fun 2) it's an attempt to make it clear the tool isn't a replacement for games but a supplement (i.e. a hedge against confrontations over copyright)
- Jtsummers 11y ago
  I figured it was a holdover from starting as a wargaming simulator. The rules on those are somewhat varied (x inches in one system, hexes in another, squares in a third, or y inches in a fourth) so the ability to shift things around (flexibly) allows games to be simulated with greater ease.
lfowles 11y ago
I dove deep and burnt out, but I was playing with something similar and talking with the VASSAL lead about this topic. See the VASSAL 4 roadmap[0] (although I can't remember if rules enforcement is ACTUALLY on the roadmap or if it got pushed off because of complexity.) Also keep in mind that modules are mostly data driven and about defining the pieces and the playing area. [0]: http://www.vassalengine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3914&start=225#p31141 http://www.vassalengine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3914&s...

splawn 11y ago

Vassal seems like more of a staple of the hardcore wargaming community (For the most part, not making an absolute statement here). If you want to play boardgames with less learning curve (both the interface and the games themselves) I recommend boardgamearena.com for web-based (but with a smaller library) or Tabletop Simulator for native (bigger library through Steam's workshop thing) EDIT: and of course actual physical copies of the games are probably the best way to go if possible.

vonmoltke 11y ago
I think this is a fair statement. It pretty much started as a way for board wargamers to play each other by email. In fact, the name is an acronym (Virtual Advanced Squad Leader - VASL). It was designed to be flexible, though, so in theory a VASSAL module can be made for any board game.
thaumasiotes 11y ago
> EDIT: and of course actual physical copies of the games are probably the best way to go if possible. In terms of logistics, physical copies are the worst possible way to play. They have benefits if you're playing as a bonding activity, since everyone has to be there. They have absolutely no benefits, and enormous drawbacks, if you're playing to play.
- fragmede 11y ago
  > absolutely no benefits Digital games do have their advantages, but that's going a bit too far. Is it possible for someone can't programming to create a digital game? Could they implement "house rules" on an existing game? In games that have trading, how about non-standard trading? (Eg I've played Settlers with futures) How about granting a younger player an advantage to compensate (eg, give them an extra $1000 to start)? How immune to cheating is Vassal? If the digital copy runs on Windows, a bunch of my friends already have a copy of ollydbg installed. Is there also a feasible to detect if there's a Excel spreadsheet or Google Doc open that tallying all thes cards used and other information about the game state, and spitting out the odds that my next card is going to be the one I'm looking for? Meanwhile, playing a game locally means playing with others humans with similarly limited memory and processing power, which means my naive gameplay, which doesn't have the odds of every possible combination of cards memorized, isn't a game of Humans vs. Cylons. (Not that I understand the attraction to online poker either.) Is there any guarantee that the person on the other end isn't grepping /usr/share/dict/words in our digital Boggle game? Teaching people how to play ("customized live interactive tutorial") is far better with a (patient) real person rather than a recorded tutorial, especially when the game hasn't been translated. Are you going to be able to dig up a digital copy in 30 years and play that on the latest computer? Can you give your digital copy to a friend? How many copies of the game do you need to buy for everyone to play? Most online games require each person to buy their own copy, but aside from Magic and other CCG, the box and some friends is all you need. That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure you can come up with other advantages that physical copies of the game have.

ErikRogneby 11y ago

This reminds me a lot of http://www.brettspielwelt.de/Spiele/ http://www.brettspielwelt.de/Spiele/ which has been around for over a decade. The game list isn't as big as Vassal, but the client and interface for the games has been pretty reliable.

Zardoz84 11y ago

Would be interesting to try to build a IA to play Advanced Civilization. If the original DOS game adaptation had a very competent IA, what could archive now ?