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France Launches French Tech Ticket, a Startup Visa for Foreign Entrepreneurs
- lucidrains 11y agoafter seeing the anti-Uber protests, why would anyone in their right minds go do a startup in France?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- pesenti 11y agoBecause there is very good tech talent with much less competition and lower costs than in the US - in part because schools are mostly free.
- redthrowaway 11y agoAnd that tech talent can work anywhere in Europe. So why start a company in a country that's hostile to entrepreneurship when you could start it elsewhere with access to the same talent pool?
- xgbi 11y agoCountry? Where did you read that the entire country population is against Uber? It is actually the contrary... It is just that taxis were super violent during their protests (which definitely didn't help their case).
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- solve 11y agoLower competition - my favorite lie that I hear told in every EU country. EU is not lower competition from the entrepreneur's perspective. Anywhere in the EU is vastly higher competition. - Unless you're doing a hyper-local product, you're competing on the global scale. - The ratio of active investors versus serious entrepreneurs is far, far worse in France than in Silicon Valley. - Getting good people in France to join your startup is very easy. Getting the absolute best people in the world, that's tough. Not because they don't exist in France. It's because the absolute best people want to leave France. Top talent wants to move to the #1 best place in the world for their industry, no less. The lifecycle of a (non-lifestyle) startup anywhere in the EU is far harder than it is in Silicon valley, at every stage. If the government continues to add serious benefits, and many other changes happen though, the balance could maybe start to shift.
- pesenti 11y agoI meant lower competition for talent.
- iamcurious 11y agoIt's because the absolute best people want to leave France. Top talent wants to move to the #1 best place in the world for their industry, no less. Are those definitions or observations?
- Joky 11y agoDid the taxis protesting against Uber in NYC made the US a no-go for entrepreneur? If not, why would it for France...
- oh_sigh 11y agoDid the taxis completely block traffic in Manhattan and assault/kidnap uber drivers?
- ane 11y agoThe food is rather nice.
- Toine 11y agoSo taxis in Paris protest against a multibillion dollar company and suddenly the entire country of France is against startups ? I agree that France is probably not the best country to launch a startup but this is a pretty poor argument.
- nraynaud 11y agoTrashing uber in France is like the US trashing the chinese, uber is not a startup, it's a huge foreign conglomerate entering a new country where there is already a huge incumbent in place, there is nothing startupy anymore about it, you're a few years late to the party. It's like the crackdowns on online gaming in the US for example.
- metahatem 11y agoNot sure how to feel about this considering the recent Uber events in France. (Uber France Leaders Arrested For Running Illegal Taxi Company / http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/two-uber-executives-in-france-detained-for-questioning/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/two-uber-executiv...) As an entrepreneur, that is not enticing to me.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- scarmig 11y agoThere are, of course, other lines of businesses for start-ups to get into. It is probably true that if you're looking to disrupt how employment markets function, France is probably not a great place to focus your initial efforts. But there are lots of ways to make money outside of that.
- bloodorange 11y agoLots of ways to make money without breaking the law.
- MCRed 11y agoThat's only true until your business threatens a competitor with more political influence... in countries where the laws are written that way. (The USA counts as such a country, though we don't do it as much as france- look at how much protection the cable and wireless companies have.)
- omginternets 11y agoNot in France.
- Wilya 11y agoOh, come on. If your business model is "bypass the law and hope you can get big enough before anyone notices", this kind of setbacks are bound to happen. It happened in France, it could have happened anywhere. On the other hand, there are thousands of people creating startups without trying to hack the law, and they are doing just fine in France.
- phanindra_veera 11y agoIs there anything similar in U.S.A ?
- pkaye 11y agoSome options: http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/entrepreneur-visa-guide http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/entrepreneur-visa-guide
- phanindra_veera 11y agoThis is what I need. Thank you.
- psychometry 11y agoNo, but Canada has one: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-up/ http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-up/
- hasenj 11y agoAwesome! I didn't realize Canada had a startup visa!
- iamcurious 11y agoThey need to work on a startup, speak English and stay at least six months in France. Interesting. I expected speak French or English..
- codegeek 11y agoThink about it this way. Expecting foreigners to speak French may be a bigger hurdle to attract interest compared to expecting foreigners to speak English which is spoken the most in the world. Yes french could still be mentioned but it may not make much difference.
- iamcurious 11y agoIt would make the difference to a small group of people who speak French fluently but little to no English, but that is not what I find interesting. I find interesting that France, notorious for protecting its own language, will put a foreign language above it.
- codewithcheese 11y agoI wish they would decouple the money from the visa; so they can hand out more visas. I would be interested to live some time in France while I bootstrap a business. I don't need money from the government, actually I will bring my own...that's why countries should be more lenient with visas for entrepreneurs
- SandersAK 11y agoHaving lived in France for four years trying to start a company, I can say, without question, this would be the worst idea for anyone who is serious about starting a company. Most french LEAVE france because of how byzantine and insane the laws are towards companies (let alone startups).
- xGrill 11y agoCan you elaborate on this? I had this idea lingering in the back of my head to move to France for 3-6 months to build out my concept/prototype and then move back to the US when I am ready to leave the "pre-revenue" stage of the startup.
- SandersAK 11y agoif your plan is to just vacation in France for 6 months and hack on a prototype, do it. But that probably applies to anywhere in the world. If you want to set a business up and live in France forreals, then don't do that, and read below. tl;dr - france is not a culture celebrated for its high risk profile. it celebrates its past and culture, things it wishes to preserve. everything else suffers because of this. Moving from US to France all of your costs are going to go up. It's really hard to get French people to adopt the latest trends. Historically things are very conservative with the benefit of the doubt erring on the side of the status quo. Any legal, gov't, or bureaucratic issues you think you have in the US, you can multiply by 20 if you set up in france. The whole taxation system in France was never designed to deal with risk-heavy entreprises. If you employ someone, you must budget for paid vacation. To employ them at all, you need to draft either a CDI (Contract Duration Indeterminée)which means basically that you're employing them for life, or CDD (Contract Duration Determiné) which means you employ them on short term contract only. So either you marry them or you can't promise them much upside.
- yulaow 11y agoSerious questions: are not these types of contract a standard in almost any west-EU/north-EU country?
- Htsthbjig 11y agoAs an entrepreneur in Europe I avoid France at all cost, even when it is a big market for us, we develop for them outside. Great place to live, bad place for working. Worse if the people that decide on your visas and conditions are Communist people. Central planning(communism) is the opposite of startups. In the US people(the culture and society) admire people that makes money, in my opinion too much. When Americans talk about people they say things like "he is worth X thousands dollars", implying that people is worth the money they have in the bank. In France it is the polar opposite, the culture hates successful people, envy is endemic and taxes are on the roof, and will only grow higher when the German money stops flowing. France is one of the natural wealthiest countries I have ever lived, but French people are not very efficient at exploiting it. They believe in eternal rights, but not on duties. The same way than when you live in China you feel the Cultural revolution, in France you feel the French Revolution at every corner.
- akg_67 11y agoThis program might appeal to digital nomads. It is a good way to work on your projects for 6 months in a country and then move on to someplace else. I am guessing the program may have some restrictions in this aspect. Nevertheless, interesting program to attract entrepreneurship if conditions are not onerous.
- jacquesm 11y agoAfter the dailymotion debacle France would not be top of my list if I considered doing a start-up. http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/30/sacrebleu-french-pride-kills-yahoo-dailymotion-deal/ http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/30/sacrebleu-french-pride-kil...
- jeremyt 11y agoI can't really believe this is a serious idea. Or maybe it is a serious idea from people who have no idea how startups work. As one of the other commenters said, the primary reason I wouldn't start a company in France is the "Byzantine and insane laws" that you have to deal with. For starters, how about all of the employment laws that make it difficult to fire poor performing employees. But beyond that, look at the tax rates. As someone who has been through starting a company before, it's just not worth it without the chance of a good return in the future. A quick internet search reveals that as a non-French citizen, I would be liable for around 56% in taxes if my company ever exited. Compare that with the qualified small business rate of about 15% here in the states... It's almost offensive to me that the French government thinks that the only thing standing between a successful tech scene and where they are now is the ability to get a visa and some seed capital. Hubris much?
- alexeichemenda 11y agoRegarding taxes, you're comparing two very different things. The 15% you're talking about is, as you said, qualified small business rate, which means you have [..] to hold it for more than 5 years. The 56% you're talking about in France is an over simplified number. My company just got acquired (i'm a co-founder), and I can guarantee you I got a better tax deal in France than you will ever get in the US. I'm not even going to get into the laws debate, but just keep in mind, just like the taxes, it's not at all how you think it is :)
- potomushto 11y agoInteresting, the same Startup Visa program for Italy got the same negative reaction[1]. I wonder which European country has the best conditions to start the new high-risk Internet company? Finland? Poland? 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8890952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8890952
- jacquesm 11y agoIt very much depends on where you are coming from. If you're from the USA or Canada the UK would be your first choice, Germany your second.