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People have this strange idea that running a red light is strictly worse than breaking the speed limit. It isn't. I ride a bicycle. I don't run red lights as a

People have this strange idea that running a red light is strictly worse than breaking the speed limit. It isn't. I ride a bicycle. I don't run red lights as a general principle, but if I'm at a quiet intersection which I can see to be clear, I don't think coming to a stop and then cautiously proceeding is a terrible thing to do. It's significantly safer than breaking the speed limit on city streets. I also think it's worth noting that many intersections are designed for cars. The safe way to proceed through those intersections is not necessarily to behave like a car.

branchless 11y ago
On some big intersections when impatient drivers are waiting at lights for some time it's really dangerous to set off with them when. Because of this at such junctions I'll go during the "pedestrian" phase after all the pedestrians have crossed, proceeding slowly as not to hit someone deciding to make a run for it before the lights change. I agree with you about taking a common-sense view to it. Whenever I've used this defense drivers typically state the rules are the rules and common-sense is subjective and we can't have people making up things as they go along. I never like this, it just seems typical of the times we live in.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> People have this strange idea that running a red light is strictly worse than breaking the speed limit. If you mean the posted speed limit, it usually legally is since the posted speed limit is, in many legal regimes, not actually a mandatory limit, whereas the red light is. > I also think it's worth noting that many intersections are designed for cars. Yes, particularly, the relation between normal speed on the road, the distance at which the signal is clearly visible, the timing of the signal, etc., are designed to provide cars, bikes, pedestrians, etc., crossing the intersection safety from, particularly, cars passing through the intersection in other directions. Bikes, pedestrians, cars, etc., violating the rules governing entrance to the intersection are negating that design. > The safe way to proceed through those intersections is not necessarily to behave like a car. There's probably an argument that it is in some circumstances safer for a bike to behave like a pedestrian than like a car, sure, as both the size and speed regime may be closer (especially, in the latter case, when coming off a stop) to the former than the latter. OTOH, there's a reason that pedestrians generally aren't supposed to cross against lights, either, so that doesn't really justify blowing through a red light.
- InclinedPlane 11y ago
  In most areas the posted limit is the actual, statutory limit, and exceeding it by even 1mph is violating the law.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > In most areas the posted limit is the actual, statutory limit, and exceeding it by even 1mph is violating the law. In most states, yes; OTOH, many of the exceptions are large (both geographically and by population) states like California and Texas, so "most areas" is a little bit less clear.
vhost- 11y ago
I blow reds on certain intersections to avoid people making right turns into me. Most of the time it happens on one-way-crossing-one-way where the driver next to me is looking left, not thinking they need to look right because traffic on the cross street is one way.
- rday 11y ago
  I've been yelled at in similar situations. For "riding in the middle of the road" when I'm simply not riding in the right turn lane. It's never safe to put yourself in a position where you are going straight and a car is turning right. VA also notes this in the law[0]. If the lane is a turn only, you don't have to ride near the curb of the turn only lane. [0]http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-905 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-905 p4.
rday 11y ago
In Virginia if a bike waits for 120 seconds[0] and no cars are there, it's totally legal to run the light. Bikes tend not to trigger the light change. (I know this reads as "if no one sees you, it's ok". But it actually is on the books) [0] http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-833 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-833 section B
rhino369 11y ago
It isn't strictly worse, but intersections are the most dangerous part of navigating roads. You think the intersection is quiet and then bam you get T-boned by a car you didn't see--game over. I don't personally care if bikers run reds, but be safe about it. I see plenty of them weaving between pedestrians or weaving around moving cars. That behavior is just dangerous as can be, and not just for you. At the end of the day, it's not my spine that will get crushed if you run the light.
linkregister 11y ago
The "quiet street" scenario is almost certainly not the one that's being addressed by people who get irked by red-light runners.

branchless 11y ago

On some big intersections when impatient drivers are waiting at lights for some time it's really dangerous to set off with them when. Because of this at such junctions I'll go during the "pedestrian" phase after all the pedestrians have crossed, proceeding slowly as not to hit someone deciding to make a run for it before the lights change. I agree with you about taking a common-sense view to it. Whenever I've used this defense drivers typically state the rules are the rules and common-sense is subjective and we can't have people making up things as they go along. I never like this, it just seems typical of the times we live in.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> People have this strange idea that running a red light is strictly worse than breaking the speed limit. If you mean the posted speed limit, it usually legally is since the posted speed limit is, in many legal regimes, not actually a mandatory limit, whereas the red light is. > I also think it's worth noting that many intersections are designed for cars. Yes, particularly, the relation between normal speed on the road, the distance at which the signal is clearly visible, the timing of the signal, etc., are designed to provide cars, bikes, pedestrians, etc., crossing the intersection safety from, particularly, cars passing through the intersection in other directions. Bikes, pedestrians, cars, etc., violating the rules governing entrance to the intersection are negating that design. > The safe way to proceed through those intersections is not necessarily to behave like a car. There's probably an argument that it is in some circumstances safer for a bike to behave like a pedestrian than like a car, sure, as both the size and speed regime may be closer (especially, in the latter case, when coming off a stop) to the former than the latter. OTOH, there's a reason that pedestrians generally aren't supposed to cross against lights, either, so that doesn't really justify blowing through a red light.

InclinedPlane 11y ago
In most areas the posted limit is the actual, statutory limit, and exceeding it by even 1mph is violating the law.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > In most areas the posted limit is the actual, statutory limit, and exceeding it by even 1mph is violating the law. In most states, yes; OTOH, many of the exceptions are large (both geographically and by population) states like California and Texas, so "most areas" is a little bit less clear.

vhost- 11y ago

I blow reds on certain intersections to avoid people making right turns into me. Most of the time it happens on one-way-crossing-one-way where the driver next to me is looking left, not thinking they need to look right because traffic on the cross street is one way.

rday 11y ago
I've been yelled at in similar situations. For "riding in the middle of the road" when I'm simply not riding in the right turn lane. It's never safe to put yourself in a position where you are going straight and a car is turning right. VA also notes this in the law[0]. If the lane is a turn only, you don't have to ride near the curb of the turn only lane. [0]http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-905 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-905 p4.

rday 11y ago

In Virginia if a bike waits for 120 seconds[0] and no cars are there, it's totally legal to run the light. Bikes tend not to trigger the light change. (I know this reads as "if no one sees you, it's ok". But it actually is on the books) [0] http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-833 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-833 section B

rhino369 11y ago

It isn't strictly worse, but intersections are the most dangerous part of navigating roads. You think the intersection is quiet and then bam you get T-boned by a car you didn't see--game over. I don't personally care if bikers run reds, but be safe about it. I see plenty of them weaving between pedestrians or weaving around moving cars. That behavior is just dangerous as can be, and not just for you. At the end of the day, it's not my spine that will get crushed if you run the light.

linkregister 11y ago

The "quiet street" scenario is almost certainly not the one that's being addressed by people who get irked by red-light runners.