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> because an orca will neither grow up to be able to give consent Conjecture that I do not agree with. Orcas can definitely give consent, it depends on the sit
by itistoday2 11y ago
> because an orca will neither grow up to be able to give consent
Conjecture that I do not agree with. Orcas can definitely give consent, it depends on the situation.
> nor could they reach that capacity as a species (within human timeframes).
More conjecture with which I disagree. Orcas can talk and they can indicate consent already.
> there isn't any selection pressure guiding them in that direction.
Conjecture. Strongly disagree.
> Personally I think Sea World is criminally abusive because it is necessarily incapable of holding large water mammals like orcas in captivity in a way that minimizes suffering for them
Finally, something we agree on.
- pluma 11y agoI'm talking about informed, legal consent. A child isn't able to give that, much less any non-human animal.
- itistoday2 11y agoHere's an example of a grizzly expressing non-consent to being caged up: http://www.startribune.com/minnesota-zoo-bear-slams-rock-into-glass-pane-shattering-it-like-a-windshield/311777801/ http://www.startribune.com/minnesota-zoo-bear-slams-rock-int... That is sufficient for me and it should be sufficient for any decent human being. If you require a grizzly or an orca to "sign on the dotted line for informed legal consent", you are a monster, and you are the one who should be caged up.