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Honestly this is the part I hate most about Clojure. The tooling is always so convoluted to setup and by the time you start your next project something has cha

Honestly this is the part I hate most about Clojure. The tooling is always so convoluted to setup and by the time you start your next project something has changed again, requiring more changes which might break your tool chain. ClojureScript is especially guilty of this right now with all the recent repl changes. I appreciate the The CS team trying to work with 3rd party repl developers right now, but it doesn't seem to be helping much. It's pushed me back to simple gulp based es6 dev using ramda, rxjs, immutablejs, etc - basically the parts of clojurescript I like. The only thing I sort of miss from Clojure are macros and homoiconicity - it sure is nice to look so uniform, but the tooling just drives me away.

mordocai 11y ago
I can agree with that with clojurescript, but I disagree that clojure itself has this problem. Clojurescript -should- be calming down soon. It is in a stage of changing constantly ATM but that should calm down once some of the underlying tech is stabilized (like clojurescript bootstrapped from clojurescript).
- sgrove 11y ago
  I get the same impressions. Even working with ClojureScript professionally for ~3 years, contributing to the compiler (a tiny, tiny bit), and diving deep into a lot of the libraries... the tooling story is way too chaotic for me. But I'm somewhat OK with it, as the changes generally seem to be positive, and I have hope that the stability will coalesce around a good, rather than rotten-but-papered-over, core.
  - sbensu 11y ago
    I feel the same way. The ClojureScript compiler routinely makes the conceptually sound choices even in the face of breakage. This leads to unstable tooling but the quality of the underlying code allows for bigger and better conceptual improvements.
chowes 11y ago
Have you looked into Mozilla's SweetJS? I haven't had enough Clojure experience to get into something where macros would prove useful, so I'm wondering if utilizing macros in Javascript (which I'm much more comfortable in) would be worthwhile.

mordocai 11y ago

I can agree with that with clojurescript, but I disagree that clojure itself has this problem. Clojurescript -should- be calming down soon. It is in a stage of changing constantly ATM but that should calm down once some of the underlying tech is stabilized (like clojurescript bootstrapped from clojurescript).

sgrove 11y ago
I get the same impressions. Even working with ClojureScript professionally for ~3 years, contributing to the compiler (a tiny, tiny bit), and diving deep into a lot of the libraries... the tooling story is way too chaotic for me. But I'm somewhat OK with it, as the changes generally seem to be positive, and I have hope that the stability will coalesce around a good, rather than rotten-but-papered-over, core.
- sbensu 11y ago
  I feel the same way. The ClojureScript compiler routinely makes the conceptually sound choices even in the face of breakage. This leads to unstable tooling but the quality of the underlying code allows for bigger and better conceptual improvements.

chowes 11y ago

Have you looked into Mozilla's SweetJS? I haven't had enough Clojure experience to get into something where macros would prove useful, so I'm wondering if utilizing macros in Javascript (which I'm much more comfortable in) would be worthwhile.