4 ms·

You probably read too many UK newspapers, each of which decided to make a sustained attack throughout his leadership.

by eterm 11y ago

gadders 11y ago
Well, living in the UK, yes I do. And Brown decided to wage his own childish sustained attack on Tony Blair for the whole time he was Chancellor of the Exchequor as well. But on top of all this, Brown was a bully to his subordinates as well.
- toyg 11y ago
  He also understood economics better than the current bunch will ever do. But hey, they smile better on tv, so here we are.
  - gadders 11y ago
    Yes, that's why the economy was in such great shape when he left office.
    - toyg 11y ago
      Considering we went through the biggest crash since the 1920s, which was triggered overseas, yes, we did quite well out of it. In fact, without his choice of semi-nationalising some of the biggest banks in the land (and in the world), today we'd probably be begging for a bowl of porridge. Most people outside the UK understand this, including pretty much everyone Brown worked with during those crisis meetings, which is why Sen is saying what he's saying. He made missteps in other areas (PFIs, the privatization drive, and from a leftist point of view, the choice to leave basically intact the banks he acquired), but he understood macroeconomics better than most. Unfortunately for him, Murdoch did not trust him not to come after his interests, so here we are.
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  He wasn't as bad as James Callaghan, John Major, or - IMO - Margaret Thatcher. And Blair was - and is - a war criminal. The politicking between the two was juvenile, but I'd rather blame Brown for his insistence on semi-privatised (and ruinously expensive) funding for public projects through the misuse of PFI. That aside, Sen may actually be right in that Brown kept it together after 2008. The Tory press love to blame him for 2008 in its entirety, including the parts he had no control over. But that's because the Tory press is full of vile liars, criminals, and frauds. (Some of whom have spent time in jail now.) A more sober assessment is less unkind to Brown as an economist - if perhaps not as a politician.
  - gadders 11y ago
    He could have made a very good academic. He's obviously a bright bloke. He appeared to be temperamentally unsuitable to leadership though. To your other points: - Calling Blair a war criminal is just childish name calling. - Thatcher is one of the best post-war Prime Ministers, together with Clement Atlee, depending on your politics. - The left-wing press has its own share of liars and frauds. The Daily Mirror was at least as complicit as the Murdoch press in phone hacking. And Johan Hari, Guardian Journalist, is probably the biggest liar in journalism of moderd times.
    - TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
      It's not very realistic to write off Blair's record as "childish name calling." We're still waiting for the Chilcot report, but the US side has more or less admitted that the pretexts for the Iraq war were made up nonsense. At least half a million people died in that war, and the results for the region were catastrophic - although very profitable for certain contractors. I'm not quite sure what else you need to describe someone as a war criminal. But it's not just my opinion: it's a sentiment that's been voiced in the House of Lords. As for Thatcher - charisma hardly maps to competence, and many of Thatcher's protectees and associates were - let's say - questionable company for a moral leader, with some extremely unsavoury hobbies that are being investigated by the police. This hardly speaks well of her judgement or character. The Daily Mirror has very limited political influence, and last time I looked there was no one from the Mirror in the Cabinet running Communications for No 10 - until they were tried and jailed. It would be interesting to find out exactly how and where phone hacking started. I suspect it wasn't invented by the Mirror. Naturally I can't prove that. But I do know that as far back as 1994 journalists from another newspaper were handing out illegal addictive drugs in return for tip-offs. So phone hacking is just the tip of the iceberg. And Johann Hari actually wrote for the Indie, not the Guardian. Considering the Mail regularly "repurposes" content from the entire web without attribution, accusing him of being the worst journalist ever is slightly hyperbolic - although to be fair the Mail does usually try to rewrite the content at least a little, which makes it okay, I guess.
lucozade 11y ago
Or maybe just read too many of Mr Brown's speeches... "My vision is of a Britain where there is not stop go and boom bust but economic stability" April 2000 British Chamber of Commerce speech. FWIW I don't believe Gordon Brown was primarily responsible for the crash. But neither do I believe he was primarily responsible for the good years. As to visionary. Well, let's say somewhat less than 20/20.

You probably read too many UK newspapers, each of which decided to make a sustained attack throughout his leadership.

by eterm 11y ago

You probably read too many UK newspapers, each of which decided to make a sustained attack throughout his leadership.

Well, living in the UK, yes I do. And Brown decided to wage his own childish sustained attack on Tony Blair for the whole time he was Chancellor of the Exchequor as well. But on top of all this, Brown was a bully to his subordinates as well.

toyg 11y ago
He also understood economics better than the current bunch will ever do. But hey, they smile better on tv, so here we are.
- gadders 11y ago
  Yes, that's why the economy was in such great shape when he left office.
  - toyg 11y ago
    Considering we went through the biggest crash since the 1920s, which was triggered overseas, yes, we did quite well out of it. In fact, without his choice of semi-nationalising some of the biggest banks in the land (and in the world), today we'd probably be begging for a bowl of porridge. Most people outside the UK understand this, including pretty much everyone Brown worked with during those crisis meetings, which is why Sen is saying what he's saying. He made missteps in other areas (PFIs, the privatization drive, and from a leftist point of view, the choice to leave basically intact the banks he acquired), but he understood macroeconomics better than most. Unfortunately for him, Murdoch did not trust him not to come after his interests, so here we are.
TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
He wasn't as bad as James Callaghan, John Major, or - IMO - Margaret Thatcher. And Blair was - and is - a war criminal. The politicking between the two was juvenile, but I'd rather blame Brown for his insistence on semi-privatised (and ruinously expensive) funding for public projects through the misuse of PFI. That aside, Sen may actually be right in that Brown kept it together after 2008. The Tory press love to blame him for 2008 in its entirety, including the parts he had no control over. But that's because the Tory press is full of vile liars, criminals, and frauds. (Some of whom have spent time in jail now.) A more sober assessment is less unkind to Brown as an economist - if perhaps not as a politician.
- gadders 11y ago
  He could have made a very good academic. He's obviously a bright bloke. He appeared to be temperamentally unsuitable to leadership though. To your other points: - Calling Blair a war criminal is just childish name calling. - Thatcher is one of the best post-war Prime Ministers, together with Clement Atlee, depending on your politics. - The left-wing press has its own share of liars and frauds. The Daily Mirror was at least as complicit as the Murdoch press in phone hacking. And Johan Hari, Guardian Journalist, is probably the biggest liar in journalism of moderd times.
  - TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
    It's not very realistic to write off Blair's record as "childish name calling." We're still waiting for the Chilcot report, but the US side has more or less admitted that the pretexts for the Iraq war were made up nonsense. At least half a million people died in that war, and the results for the region were catastrophic - although very profitable for certain contractors. I'm not quite sure what else you need to describe someone as a war criminal. But it's not just my opinion: it's a sentiment that's been voiced in the House of Lords. As for Thatcher - charisma hardly maps to competence, and many of Thatcher's protectees and associates were - let's say - questionable company for a moral leader, with some extremely unsavoury hobbies that are being investigated by the police. This hardly speaks well of her judgement or character. The Daily Mirror has very limited political influence, and last time I looked there was no one from the Mirror in the Cabinet running Communications for No 10 - until they were tried and jailed. It would be interesting to find out exactly how and where phone hacking started. I suspect it wasn't invented by the Mirror. Naturally I can't prove that. But I do know that as far back as 1994 journalists from another newspaper were handing out illegal addictive drugs in return for tip-offs. So phone hacking is just the tip of the iceberg. And Johann Hari actually wrote for the Indie, not the Guardian. Considering the Mail regularly "repurposes" content from the entire web without attribution, accusing him of being the worst journalist ever is slightly hyperbolic - although to be fair the Mail does usually try to rewrite the content at least a little, which makes it okay, I guess.

lucozade 11y ago

Or maybe just read too many of Mr Brown's speeches... "My vision is of a Britain where there is not stop go and boom bust but economic stability" April 2000 British Chamber of Commerce speech. FWIW I don't believe Gordon Brown was primarily responsible for the crash. But neither do I believe he was primarily responsible for the good years. As to visionary. Well, let's say somewhat less than 20/20.