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Ah yes, Yegge's old rant and the Perl6 (not Perl5!) operator periodic table. Very new on HN! Can you trolls at least get something about Perl5 to post about?!

by berntb 17y ago

Ah yes, Yegge's old rant and the Perl6 (not Perl5!) operator periodic table. Very new on HN! Can you trolls at least get something about Perl5 to post about?! (Answer to a possible answer in advance: "What, you post about another language in the same family -- and claim not to be a troll!?") I'll reference this, regarding language trolling on HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=963706 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=963706 Because I'm just not going to be trolled discussing this on HN, again.

amix 17y ago
Yegge's old rant still holds true for both Perl 5 and Perl 6, nothing has changed. There isn't a table of Perl 5 operators - - and the Perl 6 operator table shows what kind of design principles are behind Perl. Anyhow, I wont stay back on the sideline when Perl lovers bashes other languages and spread BS about superiority of Perl.
- berntb 17y ago
  >>nothing has changed [with Perl 5/6 since 2004] Wow, can you go through the synopses etc and prove that? :-) [Edit: Please put especial emphasis in showing why Moose is bad.] That was sad. Why don't you run along and try to "argue" with someone about Emacs/Vi, instead? Just try to not again start with flaming a language/editor based on a reference to a very different language/editor with a similar name. Also, try to find something better than outdated ranting based on a claim that a humorous speech shows someone is insane... :-)
- thwarted 17y ago
  Oddly, no perl lovers have bashed other languages in this thread, and it would be great if someone could point out that at least one of the things I said were perl, python, ruby, or PHP idioms isn't actually an idiom. So maybe you should stay on the sidelines, since the coach hasn't called you into the game. I do see that PHP is underrepresented in my list, and I just ran across one of PHP's most confusing idioms the other day. The LHS of list expansion assignment requiring the keyword list(), which looks like a function call. I can't count how many experienced programmers have asked me how this assignment to a function call works, which proves this is an idiom. And the opposite is a perl idiom: some functions in perl can operate as lvalues, like substr.
  - amix 17y ago
    I am referring to the slides which for me shows the ignorance of the Perl community and especially Larry Wall. For example this quote from Larry Wall which showcases his views on teh Powerness of Perl (Steve Yegge has more quotes from your beloved leader): "The very fact that it's possible to write messy programs in Perl is also what makes it possible to write programs that are cleaner in Perl than they could ever be in a language that attempts to enforce cleanliness."
    - berntb 17y ago
      I know it is stupid to bite, but was this the best trolling you can do? A claim that higher expressibility in a language (natural or not) doesn't imply better expressibility -- given that the user knows his tools. (Well, your "argument" could also be taken as "anything that can't be written in standard Python isn't worth to write; that is all the expressiveness needed ever, Amen". Gödel might want to say something about that, but never mind.) Dillinger(!) is claimed to have said "Bonnie and Clyde gave bank robbing a bad name". You give trolls a bad name.

by berntb 17y ago

amix 17y ago

Yegge's old rant still holds true for both Perl 5 and Perl 6, nothing has changed. There isn't a table of Perl 5 operators - - and the Perl 6 operator table shows what kind of design principles are behind Perl. Anyhow, I wont stay back on the sideline when Perl lovers bashes other languages and spread BS about superiority of Perl.

berntb 17y ago
>>nothing has changed [with Perl 5/6 since 2004] Wow, can you go through the synopses etc and prove that? :-) [Edit: Please put especial emphasis in showing why Moose is bad.] That was sad. Why don't you run along and try to "argue" with someone about Emacs/Vi, instead? Just try to not again start with flaming a language/editor based on a reference to a very different language/editor with a similar name. Also, try to find something better than outdated ranting based on a claim that a humorous speech shows someone is insane... :-)
thwarted 17y ago
Oddly, no perl lovers have bashed other languages in this thread, and it would be great if someone could point out that at least one of the things I said were perl, python, ruby, or PHP idioms isn't actually an idiom. So maybe you should stay on the sidelines, since the coach hasn't called you into the game. I do see that PHP is underrepresented in my list, and I just ran across one of PHP's most confusing idioms the other day. The LHS of list expansion assignment requiring the keyword list(), which looks like a function call. I can't count how many experienced programmers have asked me how this assignment to a function call works, which proves this is an idiom. And the opposite is a perl idiom: some functions in perl can operate as lvalues, like substr.
- amix 17y ago
  I am referring to the slides which for me shows the ignorance of the Perl community and especially Larry Wall. For example this quote from Larry Wall which showcases his views on teh Powerness of Perl (Steve Yegge has more quotes from your beloved leader): "The very fact that it's possible to write messy programs in Perl is also what makes it possible to write programs that are cleaner in Perl than they could ever be in a language that attempts to enforce cleanliness."
  - berntb 17y ago
    I know it is stupid to bite, but was this the best trolling you can do? A claim that higher expressibility in a language (natural or not) doesn't imply better expressibility -- given that the user knows his tools. (Well, your "argument" could also be taken as "anything that can't be written in standard Python isn't worth to write; that is all the expressiveness needed ever, Amen". Gödel might want to say something about that, but never mind.) Dillinger(!) is claimed to have said "Bonnie and Clyde gave bank robbing a bad name". You give trolls a bad name.