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I have wondered about this often with cetaceans. I feel like personhood is such a human concept and completely depends on who is defining it. It calls into ques

I have wondered about this often with cetaceans. I feel like personhood is such a human concept and completely depends on who is defining it. It calls into question, "What is personhood to begin with?" There have many documented cases of dolphins rescuing drowning human swimmers or protecting surfers from sharks. I feel like it takes a good amount of intelligence and empathy-like qualities for dolphins to be able to recognize the peril of a human creature--foreign to their natural environment--and decide to treat him as one of their own where there is no obvious benefit for the dolphin. My opinion is that we should give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to personhood. EDIT: This video of killer whales is also perplexing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWsN63PRCW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWsN63PRCW8 A group of killer whales beach themselves to grab some sea lion pups for lunch, then proceed to toss them around and eat them. There was one seal they decided not to eat so one of the killer whales beached himself again in order to release it safely on land. It really does feel like there's complex mind behind this behavior.

pcthrowaway 11y ago
Is it possible the whales realized that by returning the pup to shore when they weren't hungry, they were ensuring a larger crop next year?
- deanCommie 11y ago
  Sure, but that still suggests complex reasoning
crimsonalucard 11y ago
There's also documented cases of dolphins killing humans.
- rwallace 11y ago
  I'm curious; can you point to any references?
  - pvaldes 11y ago
    Mhhh... I'm curious also. Well, killer whales are Dolphinidae so technically they are big dolphins. They killed some humans in the past, that is for sure. Some killer whale species are piscivorous and relatively safe, but other species eat mainly mammals, and are probably much more dangerous to humans. Captive pygmy killer whales are really nasty also. They howl loudly (like wolves) and actively charge against humans when in the same pool. They need open and deep water so is understandable. Bootlenose dolphins could hit and kill easily an human but probably only if seriously injured or restrained (or if a baby dolphin is in serious danger). Dolphins seem to be really smart and friendly even in the most dangerous situations for humans. Most are very curious with pregnant women for example. Could be really easy for the dolphin to kill the human foetus in this situation with a couple of hits of the beak but this never happens. To try to 'rape' humans is a much more frequent behaviour in male bootlenose dolphins (Not, I'm not joking). Common dolphins probably not, their beak is too much fragile to take the risk to harm an human. A dolphin with a break mandible is a dead dolphin. Ziphiidae probably could kill easily a human. They have the character and the strenght, although no case has been recorded I think... humans normally don't share the same space than beaked whales and its sharp and big frontal tooth. I did not advice to try to swim between two males figthing anyways. Pygmy sperm whales are not aggresive for humans even when injured or stranded, and I'm really happy with it. They will readily defecate over you instead and I can personally assure that is a very sticky red jelly thing but you really don't die for this.
    - kendallpark 11y ago
      I've heard that there haven't been any cases of orca fatalities in the wild. All of the fatalities have occurred with captive orcas. There are dolphin attacks but I have not heard of a fatality. But one thing to consider is that some species of dolphin are more aggressive and sometimes attack and kill other kinds of dolphins and porpoises. For no reason that we can discern. Regardless, I don't think the fact that all dolphins aren't nice to humans means anything against their intelligence/sentience. All humans aren't nice to other humans.
      - peatmoss 11y ago

pcthrowaway 11y ago

Is it possible the whales realized that by returning the pup to shore when they weren't hungry, they were ensuring a larger crop next year?

deanCommie 11y ago
Sure, but that still suggests complex reasoning

crimsonalucard 11y ago

There's also documented cases of dolphins killing humans.

rwallace 11y ago
I'm curious; can you point to any references?
- pvaldes 11y ago
  Mhhh... I'm curious also. Well, killer whales are Dolphinidae so technically they are big dolphins. They killed some humans in the past, that is for sure. Some killer whale species are piscivorous and relatively safe, but other species eat mainly mammals, and are probably much more dangerous to humans. Captive pygmy killer whales are really nasty also. They howl loudly (like wolves) and actively charge against humans when in the same pool. They need open and deep water so is understandable. Bootlenose dolphins could hit and kill easily an human but probably only if seriously injured or restrained (or if a baby dolphin is in serious danger). Dolphins seem to be really smart and friendly even in the most dangerous situations for humans. Most are very curious with pregnant women for example. Could be really easy for the dolphin to kill the human foetus in this situation with a couple of hits of the beak but this never happens. To try to 'rape' humans is a much more frequent behaviour in male bootlenose dolphins (Not, I'm not joking). Common dolphins probably not, their beak is too much fragile to take the risk to harm an human. A dolphin with a break mandible is a dead dolphin. Ziphiidae probably could kill easily a human. They have the character and the strenght, although no case has been recorded I think... humans normally don't share the same space than beaked whales and its sharp and big frontal tooth. I did not advice to try to swim between two males figthing anyways. Pygmy sperm whales are not aggresive for humans even when injured or stranded, and I'm really happy with it. They will readily defecate over you instead and I can personally assure that is a very sticky red jelly thing but you really don't die for this.
  - kendallpark 11y ago
    I've heard that there haven't been any cases of orca fatalities in the wild. All of the fatalities have occurred with captive orcas. There are dolphin attacks but I have not heard of a fatality. But one thing to consider is that some species of dolphin are more aggressive and sometimes attack and kill other kinds of dolphins and porpoises. For no reason that we can discern. Regardless, I don't think the fact that all dolphins aren't nice to humans means anything against their intelligence/sentience. All humans aren't nice to other humans.
    - peatmoss 11y ago