4 ms·

Hawaii Wrestles with Vagaries of Solar Power

12 points by stefap2 11y ago

tux1968 11y ago
It would be nice if we didn't link to sites with a paywall. You know... so that everyone here is able to read the content and discuss it instead of it being limited to a subset of HN participants.
- stefap2 11y ago
  Try this through Google. https://www.google.com/search?q=Hawaii+Wrestles+With+Vagaries+of+Solar+Power&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#safe=off&q=Hawaii+Wrestles+With+Vagaries+of+Solar+Power https://www.google.com/search?q=Hawaii+Wrestles+With+Vagarie...
  - tux1968 11y ago
    Thanks. For whatever reason, that didn't actually work here though. I'm sure it's not the same content, but I did end up reading: http://e360.yale.edu/feature/will_new_obstacles_dim_hawaiis_solar_power_surge/2847/ http://e360.yale.edu/feature/will_new_obstacles_dim_hawaiis_... To get filled in a little bit more on the background.
    - iofj 11y ago
      you should switch to "news" on the google page first and then go to wsj or use this link : https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Hawaii+Wrestles+With+Vagaries+of+Solar+Power&tbm=nws https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Hawaii+Wrestles+With+Vaga...
      - tux1968 11y ago
        Thanks. Unfortunately Neither of those suggestions worked here. Am guessing it's some combination of the browser/extensions that I use.
- kiba 11y ago
  They need a way of funding journalists, or would you rather want ads?
  - tux1968 11y ago
    What are you talking about? They can do whatever they want. But it would be nice if THIS site was about sharing content we can all view.
    - melling 11y ago
      If there's something interesting worth discussing, and some people can read the article and start the conversation, I don't see why we should skip it because it's behind a paywall. Here's the gist of it: "With 21% of its power now coming from renewable sources like wind turbines and solar panels, Hawaii has become a laboratory for those intent on reinventing the grid. A new law mandates that renewables supply all of the state’s electricity by 2045. But Hawaii’s grid is already running into problems with its heavy helping of rooftop solar and other carbon-free renewables. Among them: sudden swings in the output of solar and wind, which force the state’s main utility to scramble to try to keep the overall supply of power steady."
      - technofiend 11y ago
        This is the WSJ we're talking about here: a Rupert Murdoch mouthpiece, not some bastion of balanced reporting. Utilities have peaker units that burn natural gas and are designed for absorbing and offsetting usage upticks. Honestly I think Germany is a far better place to look at solar and the problems associated with it because they have fewer hours of sunshine and many more people, so their scale and storage problems are presumably that much greater.
        snowwindwaves 11y ago
        Hawaii doesn't have natural gas plants though. The article says 70% of their energy comes from oil. I know they have diesel and coal plants too. They would have to build LNG terminals, pipelines, and gas fired power plants on each island in order to use natural gas as a quickly dispatchable source of electric power. Each island in hawaii has it's own small electric grid. The challenge for Hawaii is running small grids with high percentages of uncontrollable generation. All of Europe is interconnected, so Germany can install as many solar panels that don't get any sunshine as they want and it is only ever going to be a sliver of the total generation on the system. The price of electricity in Germany is also 29 cents / kwh, 2nd highest in europe. That doesn't make it seem like a good model to me.
- dang 11y ago
  We've discussed this many times. It's probably time to add it to the FAQ. The reason we don't ban paywalled sites is that (a) there are standard workarounds for most paywalls, and (b) banning the WSJ, NYT, New Yorker, Economist, etc. would diminish the quality of HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8777971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8777971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8634076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8634076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8647853 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8647853
slacka 11y ago
To view this site, you need to come from google.com: 1. Go to: https://www.google.com/ https://www.google.com/ 2. Search "Hawaii Wrestles With Vagaries of Solar Power" 3. Follow the first link
pkaye 11y ago
Someone posted this previously. Create a bookmark with the following contents. Then click on it when you reach a paywall page. javascript:location.href='https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=' https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=' + encodeURIComponent(location.href) + '&btnI=I'
hspak 11y ago
Wasn't the Tesla Powerwall designed to address this exact issue? It seems like there's a pretty clear path to meeting Hawaii's all renewable energy by 2045.
- melling 11y ago
  Thirty years from now a lot will have changed, including battery technology. If you buy into the singularity and exponential technology growth, it might we wiser to not rush into any extremely costly solution now.

12 points by stefap2 11y ago

tux1968 11y ago

It would be nice if we didn't link to sites with a paywall. You know... so that everyone here is able to read the content and discuss it instead of it being limited to a subset of HN participants.

stefap2 11y ago
Try this through Google. https://www.google.com/search?q=Hawaii+Wrestles+With+Vagaries+of+Solar+Power&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#safe=off&q=Hawaii+Wrestles+With+Vagaries+of+Solar+Power https://www.google.com/search?q=Hawaii+Wrestles+With+Vagarie...
- tux1968 11y ago
  Thanks. For whatever reason, that didn't actually work here though. I'm sure it's not the same content, but I did end up reading: http://e360.yale.edu/feature/will_new_obstacles_dim_hawaiis_solar_power_surge/2847/ http://e360.yale.edu/feature/will_new_obstacles_dim_hawaiis_... To get filled in a little bit more on the background.
  - iofj 11y ago
    you should switch to "news" on the google page first and then go to wsj or use this link : https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Hawaii+Wrestles+With+Vagaries+of+Solar+Power&tbm=nws https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Hawaii+Wrestles+With+Vaga...
    - tux1968 11y ago
      Thanks. Unfortunately Neither of those suggestions worked here. Am guessing it's some combination of the browser/extensions that I use.
kiba 11y ago
They need a way of funding journalists, or would you rather want ads?
- tux1968 11y ago
  What are you talking about? They can do whatever they want. But it would be nice if THIS site was about sharing content we can all view.
  - melling 11y ago
    If there's something interesting worth discussing, and some people can read the article and start the conversation, I don't see why we should skip it because it's behind a paywall. Here's the gist of it: "With 21% of its power now coming from renewable sources like wind turbines and solar panels, Hawaii has become a laboratory for those intent on reinventing the grid. A new law mandates that renewables supply all of the state’s electricity by 2045. But Hawaii’s grid is already running into problems with its heavy helping of rooftop solar and other carbon-free renewables. Among them: sudden swings in the output of solar and wind, which force the state’s main utility to scramble to try to keep the overall supply of power steady."
    - technofiend 11y ago
      This is the WSJ we're talking about here: a Rupert Murdoch mouthpiece, not some bastion of balanced reporting. Utilities have peaker units that burn natural gas and are designed for absorbing and offsetting usage upticks. Honestly I think Germany is a far better place to look at solar and the problems associated with it because they have fewer hours of sunshine and many more people, so their scale and storage problems are presumably that much greater.
      - snowwindwaves 11y ago
        Hawaii doesn't have natural gas plants though. The article says 70% of their energy comes from oil. I know they have diesel and coal plants too. They would have to build LNG terminals, pipelines, and gas fired power plants on each island in order to use natural gas as a quickly dispatchable source of electric power. Each island in hawaii has it's own small electric grid. The challenge for Hawaii is running small grids with high percentages of uncontrollable generation. All of Europe is interconnected, so Germany can install as many solar panels that don't get any sunshine as they want and it is only ever going to be a sliver of the total generation on the system. The price of electricity in Germany is also 29 cents / kwh, 2nd highest in europe. That doesn't make it seem like a good model to me.
dang 11y ago
We've discussed this many times. It's probably time to add it to the FAQ. The reason we don't ban paywalled sites is that (a) there are standard workarounds for most paywalls, and (b) banning the WSJ, NYT, New Yorker, Economist, etc. would diminish the quality of HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8777971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8777971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8634076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8634076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8647853 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8647853

slacka 11y ago

To view this site, you need to come from google.com: 1. Go to: https://www.google.com/ https://www.google.com/ 2. Search "Hawaii Wrestles With Vagaries of Solar Power" 3. Follow the first link

pkaye 11y ago

Someone posted this previously. Create a bookmark with the following contents. Then click on it when you reach a paywall page. javascript:location.href='https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=' https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=' + encodeURIComponent(location.href) + '&btnI=I'

hspak 11y ago

Wasn't the Tesla Powerwall designed to address this exact issue? It seems like there's a pretty clear path to meeting Hawaii's all renewable energy by 2045.

melling 11y ago
Thirty years from now a lot will have changed, including battery technology. If you buy into the singularity and exponential technology growth, it might we wiser to not rush into any extremely costly solution now.