4 ms·

So? Much poorer countries had to support greece. How come a poor slovakia should fund the lifestyle of lazy greeks? No thanks

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
> How come a poor slovakia should fund the lifestyle of lazy greeks? The Greeks are not lazy. Suffering is not lazy.
- celticninja 11y ago
  He may not be correct in what he is saying, but the underlying message is that Greece and the Greeks were enjoying the benefits of the EU on the never never, their attitude to taxation was part of the problem and now Greece expects to be taken care of by the rest of the EU taxpayers who actually pay their taxes. They don't want to affect their pensioners but it is many of those pensioners who benefitted the most from the money years of the EU. So I guess the question is who should be paying for Greece's poor financial planning because Greece do not appear to think it should be them.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    Greece does not want to affect their pensioners? What? Greece has already made massive cuts across the board on Government services, including pensions.
- radicalbyte 11y ago
  They retired at 61, whilst in Northern Europe we've just had to raise the age to 67. They - like the Italians - don't like paying their taxes. http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/02/greeces_generous_pensions http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/02/greeces_g... We should bail them out, but they should also retire at 67, the (existing) final salary pensions should be cut back and they should start paying their taxes.
  - quonn 11y ago
    This claim has been debunked here: http://blog.zeit.de/herdentrieb/2015/06/18/die-griechische-rentenluege_8472 http://blog.zeit.de/herdentrieb/2015/06/18/die-griechische-r... EU data: Greece 64.4 years, Germany: 65.1. OECD data: Greece 61.9 years vs. Germany 62.1 So it is actually the same.
    - rorykoehler 11y ago
      Good find. The amount of self-serving disinformation around this whole debacle is disturbing.
    - celticninja 11y ago
      They are retiring earlier, maybe just by a small margin, but earlier regardless. I think that if you also compare the average tax contribution of those retired people you would see that the level of contributions paid by germans would exceed those paid by Greeks. So a direct age comparison won't give a true picture of fairness.
  - rorykoehler 11y ago
    I have to agree with this. It is inhumane and immoral not to bail them out if we can. Sure they have a huge responsibility for their situation however we all do. Much of what caused the crisis globally is being allowed to continue unchecked. We are sleep walking into another crisis yet we are all happy to point the finger at Greece's transgressions as if they are somehow worse than our own. I don't agree with much of the fiscal and financial structures, strategies and ethos of the world at the moment however this is the path we are on and pivoting out of it will cause huge disruption and suffering. Austerity and measures forced by her creditors have so far failed Greece. It doesn't look bright in the future so they are correct to question the strategy however if they don't get their own house in order it will all be in vain. I think they realise this.
quonn 11y ago
I don't have the statistics [0][1], but I would be very, very surprised, if the amount of money Slovakia is putting into the EU and Euro zone comes even close to the transfers they receive. Slovakia does not fund anything at all, they just receive a little bit less. [0] Actually, here is some data for the EU (German): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Nettozahler_und_-empf%C3%A4nger_pro_Kopf_2012_mit_Werten.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Nettozah... [1] And here is more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union#Net_contributors_and_recipients https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union#N...

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

> How come a poor slovakia should fund the lifestyle of lazy greeks? The Greeks are not lazy. Suffering is not lazy.

celticninja 11y ago
He may not be correct in what he is saying, but the underlying message is that Greece and the Greeks were enjoying the benefits of the EU on the never never, their attitude to taxation was part of the problem and now Greece expects to be taken care of by the rest of the EU taxpayers who actually pay their taxes. They don't want to affect their pensioners but it is many of those pensioners who benefitted the most from the money years of the EU. So I guess the question is who should be paying for Greece's poor financial planning because Greece do not appear to think it should be them.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  Greece does not want to affect their pensioners? What? Greece has already made massive cuts across the board on Government services, including pensions.
radicalbyte 11y ago
They retired at 61, whilst in Northern Europe we've just had to raise the age to 67. They - like the Italians - don't like paying their taxes. http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/02/greeces_generous_pensions http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/02/greeces_g... We should bail them out, but they should also retire at 67, the (existing) final salary pensions should be cut back and they should start paying their taxes.
- quonn 11y ago
  This claim has been debunked here: http://blog.zeit.de/herdentrieb/2015/06/18/die-griechische-rentenluege_8472 http://blog.zeit.de/herdentrieb/2015/06/18/die-griechische-r... EU data: Greece 64.4 years, Germany: 65.1. OECD data: Greece 61.9 years vs. Germany 62.1 So it is actually the same.
  - rorykoehler 11y ago
    Good find. The amount of self-serving disinformation around this whole debacle is disturbing.
  - celticninja 11y ago
    They are retiring earlier, maybe just by a small margin, but earlier regardless. I think that if you also compare the average tax contribution of those retired people you would see that the level of contributions paid by germans would exceed those paid by Greeks. So a direct age comparison won't give a true picture of fairness.
- rorykoehler 11y ago
  I have to agree with this. It is inhumane and immoral not to bail them out if we can. Sure they have a huge responsibility for their situation however we all do. Much of what caused the crisis globally is being allowed to continue unchecked. We are sleep walking into another crisis yet we are all happy to point the finger at Greece's transgressions as if they are somehow worse than our own. I don't agree with much of the fiscal and financial structures, strategies and ethos of the world at the moment however this is the path we are on and pivoting out of it will cause huge disruption and suffering. Austerity and measures forced by her creditors have so far failed Greece. It doesn't look bright in the future so they are correct to question the strategy however if they don't get their own house in order it will all be in vain. I think they realise this.

quonn 11y ago

I don't have the statistics [0][1], but I would be very, very surprised, if the amount of money Slovakia is putting into the EU and Euro zone comes even close to the transfers they receive. Slovakia does not fund anything at all, they just receive a little bit less. [0] Actually, here is some data for the EU (German): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Nettozahler_und_-empf%C3%A4nger_pro_Kopf_2012_mit_Werten.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Nettozah... [1] And here is more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union#Net_contributors_and_recipients https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union#N...