4 ms·

> What is actually happening here is that Tsipras is simply trying to save face. I disagree with you. He was democratically voted into power 5 months ago to en

> What is actually happening here is that Tsipras is simply trying to save face. I disagree with you. He was democratically voted into power 5 months ago to end austerity, but NOT to leave the Euro currency or the EU. Now that he came to the conclusion that leaving the Euro currency is inevitable if Greece wants to end austerity he does the right thing any person in power should do: He lets the population decide thereby giving him a mandate to either continue austerity or leave the Euro currency, both of which he didn't get the mandate for when he was voted into power.

rsp1984 11y ago
For everybody who's not been living under a rock for the last five years it was, and is, obvious that the choice is either to accept Troika terms or to leave the Eurozone. The current situation can't be a surprise for anyone, especially not for the ones who voted for Tsipras. Tripras promised to end austerity without having to leave the EU. This was completely illusory in the first place. Politicians overpromise and fail, that's part of the game. The right response is to either be a man and continue to fight for the values you believe in or to admit defeat and step down. But you can't call in referendums every time the situation gets too hot, particularly not in circumstances like the current and within a couple of days. That's just ridiculous.
- DominikR 11y ago
  There is no legal way for the EU to throw Greece out of the Eurozone without them agreeing to it. Greece could default, revert back to their national currency or keep the Euro currency and STAY in the EU at the same time. He declared what he wanted to do, this of course meant that he had to convince the other EU elites which required open ended negotiations in good faith. I'm sure that no one in their right minds in Greece believed that Tsipras simply could dictate something to Brussels. Apparently negotiations failed, that can always happen, but at least he tried. Also It is never ridiculous to let the people of a country decide especially on hard questions after the facts on the ground have changed. I never understood the mindset of people who loathe on democratic decision-making. You seem to believe that there never was the possibility to reach a mutually beneficial agreement to begin with, and Greece should simply roll over and let their economy contract another 25% after it has already contracted 25% in the last years. If this were the case (I disagree) then maybe it's for the best to exit the EU and work with the Russians and Chinese on building a better future for the Greek people.
  - rsp1984 11y ago
    First, please don't downvote people who you simply disagree with. That's just bad style. > Also It is never ridiculous to let the people of a country decide especially on hard questions after the facts on the ground have changed. "After the facts have changed". Sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about. The facts have been on the table for about five years now, in plain sight for everyone. > You seem to believe that there never was the possibility to reach a mutually beneficial agreement to begin with, and Greece should simply roll over and let their economy contract another 25% after it has already contracted 25% in the last years. There was that possibility but Greece just simply didn't have any real leverage in the discussions. Tsipras mislead his own people in that regard and now he needs to face reality. And yes the Greek economy will contract. But never was real to begin with. It was all just built on other people's money and it wasn't built to sustain itself after that flow of money dries up. So of course, what's not sustainable will deflate.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

rsp1984 11y ago

For everybody who's not been living under a rock for the last five years it was, and is, obvious that the choice is either to accept Troika terms or to leave the Eurozone. The current situation can't be a surprise for anyone, especially not for the ones who voted for Tsipras. Tripras promised to end austerity without having to leave the EU. This was completely illusory in the first place. Politicians overpromise and fail, that's part of the game. The right response is to either be a man and continue to fight for the values you believe in or to admit defeat and step down. But you can't call in referendums every time the situation gets too hot, particularly not in circumstances like the current and within a couple of days. That's just ridiculous.

DominikR 11y ago
There is no legal way for the EU to throw Greece out of the Eurozone without them agreeing to it. Greece could default, revert back to their national currency or keep the Euro currency and STAY in the EU at the same time. He declared what he wanted to do, this of course meant that he had to convince the other EU elites which required open ended negotiations in good faith. I'm sure that no one in their right minds in Greece believed that Tsipras simply could dictate something to Brussels. Apparently negotiations failed, that can always happen, but at least he tried. Also It is never ridiculous to let the people of a country decide especially on hard questions after the facts on the ground have changed. I never understood the mindset of people who loathe on democratic decision-making. You seem to believe that there never was the possibility to reach a mutually beneficial agreement to begin with, and Greece should simply roll over and let their economy contract another 25% after it has already contracted 25% in the last years. If this were the case (I disagree) then maybe it's for the best to exit the EU and work with the Russians and Chinese on building a better future for the Greek people.
- rsp1984 11y ago
  First, please don't downvote people who you simply disagree with. That's just bad style. > Also It is never ridiculous to let the people of a country decide especially on hard questions after the facts on the ground have changed. "After the facts have changed". Sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about. The facts have been on the table for about five years now, in plain sight for everyone. > You seem to believe that there never was the possibility to reach a mutually beneficial agreement to begin with, and Greece should simply roll over and let their economy contract another 25% after it has already contracted 25% in the last years. There was that possibility but Greece just simply didn't have any real leverage in the discussions. Tsipras mislead his own people in that regard and now he needs to face reality. And yes the Greek economy will contract. But never was real to begin with. It was all just built on other people's money and it wasn't built to sustain itself after that flow of money dries up. So of course, what's not sustainable will deflate.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]