4 ms·

> Which makes me wonder why this cartel felt a need to make their own AR-15s or M16s (the article didn't mention if these were 3 round burst or full auto, did i

> Which makes me wonder why this cartel felt a need to make their own AR-15s or M16s (the article didn't mention if these were 3 round burst or full auto, did it)? If they can get their hands on rocket propelled grenades.... The use case for a rocket launcher is a bit different than the use case for a rifle. There is probably some overlap, but there are definitely situations where one is a far better choice than the other.

gweinberg 11y ago
Your missing the point. If the cartels can get RPGs from the Mexican military, they can get rifles from them also.
- joshuapants 11y ago
  Oh. That makes a lot more sense now.
hga 11y ago
Sorry about my lack of clarity. My question is, what's behind their "make vs. buy" decision. They pretty much have to buy or steal RPGs if they want them, you really don't want to mess around with primary and secondary explosives unless you absolutely have to (or so I gather, I've steered clear of them, I like my hands intact), but if they can procure RPGs, they can much more easily procure rifles. Don't know what the cost for a AR-15 pattern rifles is, but I heard some time ago the price for an illicit AK-47 pattern rifle is around $100. Lack of access to Mexican military supplies (their fighting with the Los Zetas might suggest that) plus logistics might be part of the answer, the latter as in they'd probably rather smuggle more drugs into the country than some rifles, especially if demand for marijuana exported to the US is low (everything else is much smaller size and weight). This picture https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Matazets-interrogationZetas.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Matazets-inte... shows them armed with AR-15 pattern rifles and the guy in the front right has a LAW, which is a US Vietnam era one shot rocket launcher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW).
- varjag 11y ago
  You can buy most of AR15 entirely legally, save for a small machining job on a lower receiver blank: exactly what they were doing. Much easier than raiding army arsenals.
  - hga 11y ago
    Nope, they were not turning 80% receivers into 100%, they were starting with aluminum billets according to this article (see this page for a 0% receiver you can buy ^_^: http://www.80percentarms.com/products/0-billet-ar-15-lower-receiver http://www.80percentarms.com/products/0-billet-ar-15-lower-r...). But in either case, why build when you can, in theory, buy? Each has different levels of difficultly, and in this case, if true, it was probably harder than buying or stealing. But a different set of risks.... I mean, I've heard of Afgans doing this by hand from scratch, but I've never heard of this level of organization making rifles, heck, most nation states don't.
    - varjag 11y ago
      Well once you have a CNC mill the only difference between machining the full LR and finishing a blank is in run time. As to why, I obviously don't know. But the LRs being the only regulated, and at the same time trivially machinable parts probably have to do something with it.
      - hga 11y ago
        Per the article and what I understand, there's moderately skilled work required in sourcing and perhaps adjusting the right CAM data for a complete billet -> lower receiver machining job. Plus a lot more machining involved; as I understand it, a drill press can finish an 80% receiver. But I suppose such skilled people can be persuaded to do this sort of work for a cartel.
        varjag 11y ago
        The difference between programming the 20% finishing and machining the whole part is not that large. Moreover, the finishing would require manual set up and zeroing out each semi-finished piece. Aluminium is cheap material and machines really well, there's not much downside to machining the whole piece. Plus, you save the expense of buying hundreds of pre-fab LR blanks.

gweinberg 11y ago

Your missing the point. If the cartels can get RPGs from the Mexican military, they can get rifles from them also.

joshuapants 11y ago
Oh. That makes a lot more sense now.

hga 11y ago

Sorry about my lack of clarity. My question is, what's behind their "make vs. buy" decision. They pretty much have to buy or steal RPGs if they want them, you really don't want to mess around with primary and secondary explosives unless you absolutely have to (or so I gather, I've steered clear of them, I like my hands intact), but if they can procure RPGs, they can much more easily procure rifles. Don't know what the cost for a AR-15 pattern rifles is, but I heard some time ago the price for an illicit AK-47 pattern rifle is around $100. Lack of access to Mexican military supplies (their fighting with the Los Zetas might suggest that) plus logistics might be part of the answer, the latter as in they'd probably rather smuggle more drugs into the country than some rifles, especially if demand for marijuana exported to the US is low (everything else is much smaller size and weight). This picture https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Matazets-interrogationZetas.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Matazets-inte... shows them armed with AR-15 pattern rifles and the guy in the front right has a LAW, which is a US Vietnam era one shot rocket launcher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW).

varjag 11y ago
You can buy most of AR15 entirely legally, save for a small machining job on a lower receiver blank: exactly what they were doing. Much easier than raiding army arsenals.
- hga 11y ago
  Nope, they were not turning 80% receivers into 100%, they were starting with aluminum billets according to this article (see this page for a 0% receiver you can buy ^_^: http://www.80percentarms.com/products/0-billet-ar-15-lower-receiver http://www.80percentarms.com/products/0-billet-ar-15-lower-r...). But in either case, why build when you can, in theory, buy? Each has different levels of difficultly, and in this case, if true, it was probably harder than buying or stealing. But a different set of risks.... I mean, I've heard of Afgans doing this by hand from scratch, but I've never heard of this level of organization making rifles, heck, most nation states don't.
  - varjag 11y ago
    Well once you have a CNC mill the only difference between machining the full LR and finishing a blank is in run time. As to why, I obviously don't know. But the LRs being the only regulated, and at the same time trivially machinable parts probably have to do something with it.
    - hga 11y ago
      Per the article and what I understand, there's moderately skilled work required in sourcing and perhaps adjusting the right CAM data for a complete billet -> lower receiver machining job. Plus a lot more machining involved; as I understand it, a drill press can finish an 80% receiver. But I suppose such skilled people can be persuaded to do this sort of work for a cartel.
      - varjag 11y ago
        The difference between programming the 20% finishing and machining the whole part is not that large. Moreover, the finishing would require manual set up and zeroing out each semi-finished piece. Aluminium is cheap material and machines really well, there's not much downside to machining the whole piece. Plus, you save the expense of buying hundreds of pre-fab LR blanks.