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> people who Just Don't Get It Ah, but you clearly _do_ "Get It" and should have the right to impose your understanding of the universe on the rest of the count

by pc2g4d 11y ago

> people who Just Don't Get It Ah, but you clearly _do_ "Get It" and should have the right to impose your understanding of the universe on the rest of the country? Who gets to decide who "gets it"? Who decides in which situations those not-getting-it-majority-states should be denied their right to self-government and forced to adopt ways they oppose?

lisper 11y ago
> Who decides in which situations those not-getting-it-majority-states should be denied their right to self-government and forced to adopt ways they oppose? Ultimately, the Supreme Court, by virtue of the fact that the Union army won the civil war. If you don't like it, you can always try to get the Fourteenth Amendment repealed. Maybe the Thirteenth too while you're at it. Good luck with that.
- pc2g4d 11y ago
  So your preference is for fundamental changes to the institution of marriage to be propagated by the force of state power rather than through reason, persuasion, and organic change. I'm afraid the Union Army wasn't fighting for gay rights, so I don't quite see how that applies. Nor do I see the relevance of your curious implication that because I question the appropriateness of the Supreme Court proclaiming gay marriage by fiat, I must also be interested in bringing back slavery. ("Maybe the Thirteenth too while you're at it.")
  - lisper 11y ago
    > So your preference is for fundamental changes to the institution of marriage to be propagated by the force of state power rather than through reason, persuasion, and organic change. Of course not. But that is, sadly, not an option. The forces of ignorance and bigotry are too deeply entrenched in the U.S. That is one of the costs of freedom. People are free to be ignorant, and they are free to be bigots. But the government -- neither federal nor state -- does not have that freedom, thank God. > I'm afraid the Union Army wasn't fighting for gay rights, No, they were fighting for the union. But then, having won the war and established the nation as a sovereign power, when the fourteenth amendment was duly enacted it became binding on all the states. Sometimes when you fight for things you end up accomplishing more than you set out to do.

by pc2g4d 11y ago

lisper 11y ago

> Who decides in which situations those not-getting-it-majority-states should be denied their right to self-government and forced to adopt ways they oppose? Ultimately, the Supreme Court, by virtue of the fact that the Union army won the civil war. If you don't like it, you can always try to get the Fourteenth Amendment repealed. Maybe the Thirteenth too while you're at it. Good luck with that.

pc2g4d 11y ago
So your preference is for fundamental changes to the institution of marriage to be propagated by the force of state power rather than through reason, persuasion, and organic change. I'm afraid the Union Army wasn't fighting for gay rights, so I don't quite see how that applies. Nor do I see the relevance of your curious implication that because I question the appropriateness of the Supreme Court proclaiming gay marriage by fiat, I must also be interested in bringing back slavery. ("Maybe the Thirteenth too while you're at it.")
- lisper 11y ago
  > So your preference is for fundamental changes to the institution of marriage to be propagated by the force of state power rather than through reason, persuasion, and organic change. Of course not. But that is, sadly, not an option. The forces of ignorance and bigotry are too deeply entrenched in the U.S. That is one of the costs of freedom. People are free to be ignorant, and they are free to be bigots. But the government -- neither federal nor state -- does not have that freedom, thank God. > I'm afraid the Union Army wasn't fighting for gay rights, No, they were fighting for the union. But then, having won the war and established the nation as a sovereign power, when the fourteenth amendment was duly enacted it became binding on all the states. Sometimes when you fight for things you end up accomplishing more than you set out to do.