5 ms·
> I suspect that religious marriage existed long before nation states Do you have any actual evidence? Because here in reality-land, the evidence shows that t
by rodgerd 11y ago
> I suspect that religious marriage existed long before nation states
Do you have any actual evidence? Because here in reality-land, the evidence shows that the English legal tradition considered marriage a civil institution long before the churches tried to claim it.
- coldtea 11y agoEnglang went from pre-history into history in 42 A.D. when the Romans came there. It didn't even have written history before that [check Wikipedia if you don't believe this]. Hardly the place to look for the origin of ancient traditions...
- ChrisLomont 11y agoIn reality-land, marriage is far older than English legal tradition.
- rodgerd 11y agoCommon law is the basis for US law, and drew on pre-English tradition. Crack a liberal arts book open some time.
- ChrisLomont 11y agoI'm fully aware of that, but it's irrelevant to the claim that the poster suspects "that religious marriage existed long before nation states" being disputed with "the evidence shows that the English legal tradition considered marriage a civil institution long before the churches tried to claim it". The simple fact is marriage easily predates all the English (pre or not) legal traditions. English (pre or not) traditions at best drew on the earlier concepts and practice of marriage. Crack a world history book open sometime. Or just use google.
- baddox 11y agoWell, nation states have only existed for 500 years or so, and marriage is mentioned in the Bible and plenty of Ancient Greek writings. I'm not sure if that counts as evidence here in reality-land.
- dllthomas 11y agoWith so narrow a definition of "nation state", I am left wondering what relevance "religious marriage existed long before nation states" has to the broader discussion.
- rayiner 11y ago> Well, nation states have only existed for 500 years or so Wat.
- Pinckney 11y agoStates have existed far longer. "Nation state" refers specifically to a state which coincides with a cultural or ethnic group. If you had to choose a starting point for the idea of the nation state, the Treaty of Westphalia is one of the more reasonable.
- baddox 11y agoAgain, it depends on your definition of "state." If you're using the term interchangeably with the much broader term "government," which can include even the smallest and most primitive family or tribe power structures, then you can probably consider the state to be older than marriage (I actually think there's still room for debate even then, depending also on the definition of "marriage").
- Crito 11y agoForget the English, marriage has been along longer than even the Anglo-Saxons in general.